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Old 09-10-2013, 03:25 PM   #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooter View Post
The gas mileage increase is modest... just 1.6mpg.


533 miles @22.360 gallons with no spacer 23.8 mpg
519 miles @ 20.388 gallons with the spacer 25.4 mpg

At least I know it didn't hurt the gas mileage any.
I don't think a 6.7% increase in fuel economy is modest. If that holds up over time, I'd call that pretty meaningful.

I'd love to get another 6.7% out of my V6.
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Old 09-10-2013, 04:59 PM   #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdavis92 View Post
I don't think a 6.7% increase in fuel economy is modest. If that holds up over time, I'd call that pretty meaningful.

I'd love to get another 6.7% out of my V6.
I think Tooter is rightly conservative on claiming significant mpg increase on the limited available data. Your mileage may vary. I respect that tooter acknowledges at best he can claim it doesn't reduce mpg.

IMO I have trouble seeing how a slight increase in torque between 1500-1700 rpm and a shift in torque around the 2800-3100 rpm range can translate into mpg gain for me. I keep it under 2000 rpm most of the time so I wouldn't see any benefit at part throttle from a full throttle gain of a 2-3 lb-ft of torque.

If you really want mpg increase you should stay out of the 2800-3100 range. That's 85 mph on my truck.
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Old 09-10-2013, 05:43 PM   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worthywads View Post
I think Tooter is rightly conservative on claiming significant mpg increase on the limited available data. Your mileage may vary. I respect that tooter acknowledges at best he can claim it doesn't reduce mpg.
I'm just happy to know that it doesn't...

It's always a crapshoot to be monkeying around with any factory engineered design, because if it was truly an all round better design, Toyota would have made the runners longer themselves. Remember that in lowering the peak torque in the rpm range, a little bit of top end was given up. The only advantage for the 2.7 is that it doesn't matter because there's nothing going on north of 4,700 rpm anyways, because it's simply not a high revving screamer.

Quote:
IMO I have trouble seeing how a slight increase in torque between 1500-1700 rpm and a shift in torque around the 2800-3100 rpm range can translate into mpg gain for me. I keep it under 2000 rpm most of the time so I wouldn't see any benefit at part throttle from a full throttle gain of a 2-3 lb-ft of torque.
Well, that's the point. It doesn't. What the dyno run recorded was what happens when the accelerator is floored at only 1,200 rpm in 4th gear.



Who in the hell does that while driving? It pained me to have to do this to the engine. You could smell burnt clutch lining when the runs were done. I can't help but think there's a better way to do that, but there isn't. I'm just glad that it was just a few times and not a constant situation. The saving grace is that the variable valve timing kicks in, as sell as the knock sensor retarding the timing like crazy.

Quote:
If you really want mpg increase you should stay out of the 2800-3100 range. That's 85 mph on my truck.
Heck, that's over 90 on mine!

When I drive, it's generally under 2,000 rpm except for getting onto the freeway.
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Old 09-10-2013, 06:02 PM   #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdavis92 View Post
I don't think a 6.7% increase in fuel economy is modest. If that holds up over time, I'd call that pretty meaningful.

I'd love to get another 6.7% out of my V6.
While what you said may be true. I can't be the one to claim it because I'm the guy selling the spacers. It's conflict of interest. And the inconclusive mileage samplings are only the equivalent of about one tank anyways. All I can say with conviction is that the mileage won't be any worse.

That's the value of dyno runs. They're as close to objective as you can get.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:59 PM   #385
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Production is held up for another week as we are unable to get delivery of the nylon blocks until the middle of next week. However, all of the mounting hardware and gaskets are here to make up the kits.

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Old 09-19-2013, 09:17 PM   #386
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:53 PM   #387
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Until the nylon blocks arrive, I'm still tinkering around with the installation hardware. The initial issue was: What do I do with the two bottom legs of the stock intake manifold now that it's hanging two inches farther off of the head. They're just floating out in the air...




The mounting hardware for the spacer itself is pretty straightforward. M8x1.25X100mm threaded rods with M8 12mm flange nuts.



I was going to make 2 inch spacers out of tubing to slip over the two bottom threaded rods, but instead ordered heavy barrel nuts that will do the job much better because they're fully adjustable.




With the barrel nuts spun onto the rods, it will be possible to position the manifold at just the right attitude in relation to the face of the intake ports on the head. Then tightening the two lower flange nuts will securely pin down the lower legs.

There was another mounting issue with the threaded rods. The angle of the upper rods holding the spacer and flange, and the two lower rods for the lower feet do not extend out from the engine at the same angle. The lowers are out of alignment with holes in the lower manifold legs by about a 1/4 of an inch. So after the two lower rods have been fully inserted into the engine block, they need to be bent upwards slightly to engage the holes properly.

The rods are just mild steel and will readily accept a bend without weakening them. The barrel nuts will help as they can be used to protect the threads while the rods are bent. The most simple method would be to use a length of 1/2" inside diameter tubing as a lever to bend the rods. It doesn't take much, as all you need at the end of the rods is a 1/4 inch of deflection.

Accessing the two lower points of attachment poses difficulties as you can't get to from either the top or the bottom. However, removing the driver's side front wheel really helps a lot as you can work from the side through the wheel well.
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:12 AM   #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooter View Post
There was another mounting issue with the threaded rods. The angle of the upper rods holding the spacer and flange, and the two lower rods for the lower feet do not extend out from the engine at the same angle. The lowers are out of alignment with holes in the lower manifold legs by about a 1/4 of an inch. So after the two lower rods have been fully inserted into the engine block, they need to be bent upwards slightly to engage the holes properly.

The rods are just mild steel and will readily accept a bend without weakening them. The barrel nuts will help as they can be used to protect the threads while the rods are bent. The most simple method would be to use a length of 1/2" inside diameter tubing as a lever to bend the rods. It doesn't take much, as all you need at the end of the rods is a 1/4 inch of deflection.

Accessing the two lower points of attachment poses difficulties as you can't get to from either the top or the bottom. However, removing the driver's side front wheel really helps a lot as you can work from the side through the wheel well.
Thanks for the heads up. I'm more worried about weakening the threads in my engine's head than how easily the threaded rods can be bent. Could this bend be done prior to shipment? I'd be willing to pay a little more per bolt for the added labor.
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Old 09-21-2013, 09:58 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by 2007 tacoma View Post
Thanks for the heads up. I'm more worried about weakening the threads in my engine's head than how easily the threaded rods can be bent. Could this bend be done prior to shipment? I'd be willing to pay a little more per bolt for the added labor.
Prebending the rods might create a problem in getting then threaded into the engine block. They're already hard enough to get in reaching from the side even when they're straight! Plus you'd be trying to rotate the bend to get it in the right direction. It's way easier when they're already installed. Just make sure that the studs are threaded in all the way before you bend them. If I can find some time today, I'll post up some pics.

Realize that the bend is very slight to get only a 1/4 inch deflection at the end. Believe me, it will not weaken the threads in your block as the rods are just mild steel and are not hardened. They don't need to be because they're not supporting anything, they just hold the manifold at the proper attitude and keep it from rocking on the upper flange.

If you decide you want to prebend them simply clamp one of the barrel nuts in a vice, screw in a rod, thread on the other barrel nut to protect the threads and pull on the rod. You can practically bend it by hand without any tools, but a small scrap of tubing, even some 1/2 PVC makes it easier on your hands when you pull on it.
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:03 AM   #390
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By the way, I've just started a buy list in the spacer "FEELER" thread in the 2nd Generation Tacoma Marketplace so that each buyer can be served in numbered order.

Greg
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Old 09-21-2013, 02:14 PM   #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooter View Post
Prebending the rods might create a problem in getting then threaded into the engine block. They're already hard enough to get in reaching from the side even when they're straight! Plus you'd be trying to rotate the bend to get it in the right direction. It's way easier when they're already installed. Just make sure that the studs are threaded in all the way before you bend them. If I can find some time today, I'll post up some pics.

Realize that the bend is very slight to get only a 1/4 inch deflection at the end. Believe me, it will not weaken the threads in your block as the rods are just mild steel and are not hardened. They don't need to be because they're not supporting anything, they just hold the manifold at the proper attitude and keep it from rocking on the upper flange.

If you decide you want to prebend them simply clamp one of the barrel nuts in a vice, screw in a rod, thread on the other barrel nut to protect the threads and pull on the rod. You can practically bend it by hand without any tools, but a small scrap of tubing, even some 1/2 PVC makes it easier on your hands when you pull on it.
The installation instructions will be continuing in the following few posts as I'm actually doing it, so that you will know exactly what's involved...

I've been running the manifold since it was originally installed with the two lower legs just resting on some old throttle body studs, without any issues. This shows how far they the studs are off, which is actually closer to 1/2 inch.




Found a simple way to completely protect the threads in the engine block while the rods are being bent to fit.

I'll include two extra flange nuts so that one can be threaded down to the base of each lower stud and snugged down with a wrench...



Then the barrel nuts are threaded on...



Then two more flange nuts right at the end...




To bend the rods, I just used an old scrap of 3/4 electrical tubing...



It was a few inches longer when I bent the first stud, but needed to be cut down to about 9 inches to do the back stud...




It does not take much force to bend the rod, so go easy as you only want to deflect the end less than a half inch upwards to engage the lower manifold hole. The flange nut snugged down at the base protects the threads in your engine block from any stress. And the barrel nut and top nut protect the rod's threads.
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Old 09-22-2013, 05:14 AM   #392
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It took some trial and error getting the bends right, when the manifold fit, I bolted down the flange while leaving the bottom free to adjust. Then I spun the barrel nuts up against the backs of the lower legs, and tightened up the outside flange nuts. Bingo. The manifold is on rock solid.



This was the biggest installation obstacle that needed to be overcome. And it was resolved with a minimum number of simple parts and a little creative adjustment.

Removing the driver side front wheel and unbuttoning the flexible splash guards allows working from the side to install the threaded rods, to bend them, and to snug down the lower legs. The starter doesn't need to be removed, and it is not necessary to get under the truck unless you dropped some nuts.

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Old 09-25-2013, 08:17 AM   #393
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Old 09-28-2013, 05:14 PM   #394
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The first production run of the tooter II.VII intake manifold spacers began today!

Driving home from the shop, I did a little spontaneous video of a 2nd gear/3rd gear run from 25 mph to 70mph, before having to slow for a sharp curve in the canyon road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFTl75q49e4

The only sound you are hearing is the 3 foot long Injen intake. There's no exhaust sound because I'm running the super quiet stock muffler.

I also have a bunch of pics and video of the CNC machining of the first spacer, and will post them as soon as they are uploaded.

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Old 09-28-2013, 06:16 PM   #395
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Here's the nylon blocks that arrived today...





They're super dense and as heavy as bricks...



Here's the CNC machine...



And the controls...





Here's the tool carousel. It takes a total of 8 different tools to make one spacer. More tools are manually exchanged as the machining progresses.

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Old 09-30-2013, 07:06 PM   #396
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The first tooter II.VII is being made...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOJ_C3o_Bzo
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:50 PM   #397
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Fun!!

Side note:
Nice choice on the vise. Let me know if you ever need Kurt replacement parts/rebuild kits for them.
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:18 PM   #398
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Hey thanks for the offer, pre.
It's not my machine, but I'll ask the engineer how his vise is holding up. He's meticulous with his equipment.

Greg
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:20 AM   #399
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Cool pics & videos
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:01 PM   #400
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The very first production tooter...




Unfortunately, production is going to be held up for a week while the engineer works on another project.

A jig needs to be made to hold the spacers from the inside ports so that the perimeters can all be finished in just one pass. The nylon minutely flexes under pressure of the bit, so a jig will totally resolve that issue. That project will begin in a week, and it will make producing the rest of the spacers much quicker and easier.

This is a totally new process and we're in uncharted waters,
so there are tricks we're learning as we go
which will form the foundation for future production.


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