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3RZ Balance Shaft Delete

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Old 12-09-2009, 05:52 PM   #1
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3RZ Balance Shaft Delete

Screwing around youtube, and I stumbled upon this video on youtube, looks like kind of a redneck guy who wheels the crap out of his rig, and does very ghetto modifications to marginally increase power, while doing it cheaply (I mean, he has pacesetter headers, lol).

I've googled some of his mods, like pcv inline catch (Mine was already converted to a breather with a filter), throttle body coolant passthrough bypass (some guy on a mazda forum was a physicist and calculated it in his post and determined only a .13% hp increase), and ect mod (seems like it's throw all sorts of codes and just not be a good idea in the long run).



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What stood out to me is the Balance shaft delete. After googling and Wiki-ing, it seems like just a ride comfort thing, and removing it would add around 5hp. LC Engineering makes a delete kit for $100, so I more or less know it is a legitimate mod, as I trust LCE.

Has anybody tried this? Heard any bad things...good things...? Not much coverage on the internet about balance shaft deletes, as it is only a 4 cylinder thing.
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:59 PM   #2
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ECT mod is just causing it to run rich, hence all the black smoke. More trouble than it is worth.
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Old 12-09-2009, 06:09 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98tacoma27 View Post
ECT mod is just causing it to run rich, hence all the black smoke. More trouble than it is worth.
That's what I thought, so I immediately disregarded it.
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Old 12-09-2009, 06:10 PM   #4
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That's what I thought, so I immediately disregarded it.
Yeah, it's the equivalent of those "chips" you find on ebay.
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Old 12-09-2009, 06:11 PM   #5
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Are you thinking of doing the balance shaft delete mod?
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Old 12-09-2009, 06:21 PM   #6
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Well...if it yields a noticeable amount of power and increased mpgs, without making the ride quality horrible, then yeah...but the point of the thread is to see if anyone on TW has done it before, or if I'm going to be a pioneer.
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Old 12-09-2009, 06:25 PM   #7
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I think you are going to be a pioneer. Interesting it says it is used primarily in race applications.
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Old 12-09-2009, 06:53 PM   #8
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if we get more info i will pioneer with you!!
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:05 PM   #9
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I have a follower!

...or something to that effect...

Just looked at my Haynes manual. Looks like there's 2 balance shafts, and seems like a pretty complicated install (or uninstall, i should call it), as you have to rip out your timing crap to get to it.

Seems like I could give it a shot, and it wouldn't be a big deal to put it back in if it totally sucks.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:22 PM   #10
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re-reading the wikipedia entry, it seems that our 2.7 liters are huge for four bangers...not a shock, but it says that the problem increases with bigger engine sizes, and 2 liters are the "unofficial" limit for 4 cyls. Being .7 liters way over that, maybe it's not such a good idea...

It also states that you could gain 15 hp!

Probably not completely true, but at even a third of that claimed gain $100 for 5hp is still a damn good deal.

This guy did it in his 2.5 liter minivan...on a side note: a 12 second minivan, holy shit!

Also seems that oil pressure will increase according to this mitsubishi modification website
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:34 PM   #11
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that sounds like a lot of workut i am still game.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:43 PM   #12
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after read over those links its seems that if we can figure out how to install it (the kit) AND keep the oil pressure down you and me (maybe) will make some gains out of this.

edit: looks to be a little to hard to complete for me. but send the LCE company an email and ask about the install.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:48 PM   #13
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Update!

According to various forums, and my Hayne's manual lack of coverage, and rockauto's lack of coverage, it looks like the 2RZ engine does NOT have balance shafts, and Toyota only decided to throw them in the 4 cylinder once it got to 2.7l.

So, if you've driven a 2wd 4banger taco, I'd assume that it would be a smooth ride, and not jostling due to lack of balance shafts. Since the 3RZ is only .3 liters bigger, I don't see how too much of a difference will be noticed by removing them.

I know the 3rz is basically a 2rz with a longer stroke...anybody think that this affects vibrations to the point of absolute balance shaft necessity?

Things are looking pretty promising for us, wolfgang123...
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sachou View Post
According to various forums, and my Hayne's manual lack of coverage, and rockauto's lack of coverage, it looks like the 2RZ engine does NOT have balance shafts, and Toyota only decided to throw them in the 4 cylinder once it got to 2.7l.

So, if you've driven a 2wd 4banger taco, I'd assume that it would be a smooth ride, and not jostling due to lack of balance shafts. Since the 3RZ is only .3 liters bigger, I don't see how too much of a difference will be noticed by removing them.

I know the 3rz is basically a 2rz with a longer stroke...anybody think that this affects vibrations to the point of absolute balance shaft necessity?

Things are looking pretty promising for us, wolfgang123...
I just checked the 96 FSM and indeed confirms the balance shafts are in the 3rz and not the 2rz.
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Old 12-11-2009, 12:25 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sachou View Post
re-reading the wikipedia entry, it seems that our 2.7 liters are huge for four bangers...not a shock, but it says that the problem increases with bigger engine sizes, and 2 liters are the "unofficial" limit for 4 cyls. Being .7 liters way over that, maybe it's not such a good idea...

It also states that you could gain 15 hp!

Probably not completely true, but at even a third of that claimed gain $100 for 5hp is still a damn good deal.

This guy did it in his 2.5 liter minivan...on a side note: a 12 second minivan, holy shit!

Also seems that oil pressure will increase according to this mitsubishi modification website
lol 2.7 huge? nahhh

the Detroit Diseel 40 series is an 8.4L 4 banger....
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Old 12-11-2009, 05:44 AM   #16
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thats a diseel......2.7 is big for a gas engine
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:57 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hedlesbrmstkbass View Post
lol 2.7 huge? nahhh

the Detroit Diseel 40 series is an 8.4L 4 banger....
those cylinders must be as big as my face!

Biggest gas 4 cylinder is a 3.2 in a 1961 Pontiac Tempest, which was basically a V8 389 literally cut in half. Because it used to be a V8, there were no balance shafts, so to compensate they made giant soft rubber motor mounts, and made a curved driveshaft, they also strengthened the timing chain so it wouldn't break. (according to both wikipedia and howstuffworks).

Apparently that made for a damn smooth ride.

Anyways...I'm okay with extra vibration...but if it could snap my timing chain...I'm not sure on that one.

EDIT: Looked up LC Engineering Built-up PRO-RACE engines, they all have balance shafts removed, but the STREET engines still retain balance shafts. I'm all for LCE performance, and I love how they differentiate street applications and race applications...and if they deem balance shaft deletes too much for a DD, then maybe it is. Also, looked at heavy duty timing chains, and it's $550 for the whole kit, and $130 for just the chain.

I dunno....
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:08 AM   #18
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You could remove the balancing shafts and gain a fair amount of power due to less rotational mass and parasitic drag, but the problem lies in the name its self. These shafts are there to balance the engine. A inline 4 cylinder engine is inherently a very imbalanced engine as it is, especially when you start getting up in size. When you remove these shafts the rotational mass of the crankshaft, rod and piston assemblies will be that much more unstable. If this is your daily driver, I wouldn't recommend it. 4 cylinder race engines do not use balancing shafts, but rather have the rotating assembly balance via Mallory (an extremely heavy metal) with holes drilled into the crank and different amounts on Mallory inserted to balance the assembly as much as possible.

Just some food for thought.
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Old 12-13-2009, 01:12 PM   #19
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yes the 2.7 has balance shafts and the 2.4 does not. I put cams in mine and the engine shakes pretty hard when its hot. I can't imagine it being much worse with no balance shafts. With the super charger this puts alot of shake in the truck. But you got to pay to play.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:09 PM   #20
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actually Ferrari made a 3.6 liter four cylinder back in the 60's as well... also at the same time they had a 3.6 liter 12 cylinder
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