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Old 05-18-2013, 04:40 PM   #661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTom View Post
I'm not concerned at all with going 10k due to the light color of the full syn oil, using a good filter, and I don't push this truck hard at all either. I still strive for 25mpg and 90k from my michelins.
But does anyone have a clue about my question on the brakes? What's with the 11.61 inch thing?
Go to the dealer and buy your brakes from them. They are the best material you are going to get, and they will know which rear shoes to provide you with based on the VIN.

The guy at Autozone is presented with a list for 2wd and he doesn't know which shoes are for the Prerunner and which are for the 5-lug.
Chances are, if you tell him you have a 4x4, he won't ask which shoes you have and you'll get the right ones.
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:52 PM   #662
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Originally Posted by george3 View Post
I DIY so it cost me $20 - $25 for syn with filter and I use a good filter so I compare that to $30,000 plus for a Tacoma with options and too much is OK by me on the OCI.
Ditto.

Even with synthetic costing more than conventional, I still stick with the OEM change intervals.
Extended drain intervals are NOT the primary reason to run synthetic. They are pushed by Amsoil salesmen who are trying to justify the cost to customers, IE: Oil costs twice as much, but you actually SAVE the cost of the filter by doubling the OCI... But that is not the primary advantage of running synthetic.

1 - Better cold-flow performance
2 - Better film retention (benefits you every time you start the engine)
3 - Better viscosity retention at elevated temperatures - the reduced level of viscosity improvers needed in synthetics are more stable in shear, and allow a synthetic 5w40 to maintain the viscosity performance of a 15w40 conventional (Diesel engines only, just an example)
4 - Better resistance to coking - Coking is what forms the basis for sludge. It is also a critical feature for turbocharged engines, where the hot turbo is shut down and the oil flow stops and "cooks" in the bearings. Conventional oils will "coke" (not "cook") and leave carbon deposits which build up over time and lead to bearing failure.

#3 and #4 are the basis for the logic of running extended drain intervals.
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Old 05-18-2013, 05:07 PM   #663
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Originally Posted by Rich91710 View Post
Ditto.

Even with synthetic costing more than conventional, I still stick with the OEM change intervals.
Extended drain intervals are NOT the primary reason to run synthetic. They are pushed by Amsoil salesmen who are trying to justify the cost to customers, IE: Oil costs twice as much, but you actually SAVE the cost of the filter by doubling the OCI... But that is not the primary advantage of running synthetic.

1 - Better cold-flow performance
2 - Better film retention (benefits you every time you start the engine)
3 - Better viscosity retention at elevated temperatures - the reduced level of viscosity improvers needed in synthetics are more stable in shear, and allow a synthetic 5w40 to maintain the viscosity performance of a 15w40 conventional (Diesel engines only, just an example)
4 - Better resistance to coking - Coking is what forms the basis for sludge. It is also a critical feature for turbocharged engines, where the hot turbo is shut down and the oil flow stops and "cooks" in the bearings. Conventional oils will "coke" (not "cook") and leave carbon deposits which build up over time and lead to bearing failure.

#3 and #4 are the basis for the logic of running extended drain intervals.
1 & 2 are the reasons I like syn. I've always heard the most wear is at start up.
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Old 05-18-2013, 05:22 PM   #664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by george3 View Post
1 & 2 are the reasons I like syn. I've always heard the most wear is at start up.
Yup. Every time, the engine is turning with no oil pressure.
Take the valve covers off of an old Chevy 350, pull the coil wire, and see how long you have to crank a cold engine before oil starts squirting out of the pushrods.

It's not a "long" time, but it's uncomfortable.
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Old 05-18-2013, 07:47 PM   #665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich91710 View Post
Yup. Every time, the engine is turning with no oil pressure.
Take the valve covers off of an old Chevy 350, pull the coil wire, and see how long you have to crank a cold engine before oil starts squirting out of the pushrods.

It's not a "long" time, but it's uncomfortable.
At one time I looked into a gizmo that would build up the oil pressure before starting but I didn't follow thru.
Here is a link to a (pre-oiling)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTR-24-006/
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Old 05-18-2013, 09:27 PM   #666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by george3 View Post
At one time I looked into a gizmo that would build up the oil pressure before starting but I didn't follow thru.
Here is a link to a (pre-oiling)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTR-24-006/
Ya, a couple of my racing buddies had similar rigs back in the 80s.
Just had to remember to close the solenoid before shutting down.

What I don't see on that, or in the installation kits, is a control valve.
Done properly, the accumulator is open at all times the engine is running. That way, if the pickup is uncovered during hard cornering, the accumulator takes over.

But without a valve, it's going to dump as soon as the engine is shut down.
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Old 05-19-2013, 07:30 AM   #667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich91710 View Post
Ya, a couple of my racing buddies had similar rigs back in the 80s.
Just had to remember to close the solenoid before shutting down.

What I don't see on that, or in the installation kits, is a control valve.
Done properly, the accumulator is open at all times the engine is running. That way, if the pickup is uncovered during hard cornering, the accumulator takes over.

But without a valve, it's going to dump as soon as the engine is shut down.
I'm impressed ! I thought I was posting some information of interest to the subject but you already knew all about it. Let us know if you actually do a similar mod and how it worked out. Thanks.
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:01 AM   #668
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I'm impressed ! I thought I was posting some information of interest to the subject but you already knew all about it. Let us know if you actually do a similar mod and how it worked out. Thanks.
130k on my '91 Escort, 240k on my '94 Toyota P/U, 140k on my '03 Tundra, 45k on my '06 Duramax, 90k on my '08 Taco (that's not counting company cars and the 4 cars I drove from '78 to '90).
Plus all of the cars my wife has driven....

Never had an oiling related issue with any of them. It's not worth it for a daily driver.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:16 PM   #669
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Originally Posted by Rich91710 View Post
130k on my '91 Escort, 240k on my '94 Toyota P/U, 140k on my '03 Tundra, 45k on my '06 Duramax, 90k on my '08 Taco (that's not counting company cars and the 4 cars I drove from '78 to '90).
Plus all of the cars my wife has driven....

Never had an oiling related issue with any of them. It's not worth it for a daily driver.
Thanks - Just saved me $200 plus time installing. Sound like you have a fleet. I thought Chris 4X4 was the go to guy but U R a wealth of info. Thanks again.
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:34 PM   #670
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got 154 km on my 2008 acc cab,4cyl,,runs fine so far,,was wondering about water pump i saw on post,,when did it go..i'm using syn oil./just did coolent as well as all other fluids.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:52 AM   #671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich91710 View Post
Yup. Every time, the engine is turning with no oil pressure.
Take the valve covers off of an old Chevy 350, pull the coil wire, and see how long you have to crank a cold engine before oil starts squirting out of the pushrods.

It's not a "long" time, but it's uncomfortable.

Take the valve cover of off a 85 22R and hit the key with a live coil. You be cleaning up the mess running down both fenders for awhile. looks like a mixmaster set on ultra high. Kinda amazing really until the cleanup reality sets in. It was idiling and it was a gusher. young, dumb,,and curious.

Just turned 199 on the "99"
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:48 PM   #672
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167 on my 3RZ, "50k" on my ranger. True mileage unknown.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:56 PM   #673
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Take the valve cover of off a 85 22R and hit the key with a live coil. You be cleaning up the mess running down both fenders for awhile. looks like a mixmaster set on ultra high. Kinda amazing really until the cleanup reality sets in. It was idiling and it was a gusher. young, dumb,,and curious.
Ya, chain-driven OHC is a bit different because the chain is splash-oiled.
But the cam journals are dry on initial startup.

Start the 22R with the oil cap off and you'll have the same effect as with the rocker cover off.

And ya... I did it too.
Adjusted the valves on bro-in-law's Mazda GLC. Didn't even think about the chain and cranked it over to see if the valves "sounded ok" after setting everything to proper clearances.

Freaking mess.
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Old 09-13-2013, 07:26 AM   #674
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One time my father bought a V-8 Ford sedan

A Fairlane or Galaxy or something. A 1968 I think.

It was used and he bought it for my sister. I remember going to pick it up with him. There was some slight lifter noise but other than that it started and ran well.

My sister then drove it uneventfully for several years until one day it overheated or something and then would not turn over or start. It happened somewhat far away so my father told the garage there to fix it.

They called a day or two later to say that the engine was seized as the oil pump had no drive shaft. None; it wasn't there.

Thinking: how the hell can that be? my father and I drove down there to see what was what. And not only was there no oil pump drive shaft (actually just a long flat piece of metal) but there hadn't been for a long time. But they had drained maybe two gallons of oil out of the car. <g> I eventually did find the twisted-off oil pump drive - by poking around in the hardened sludge in the bottom of the drain pan. <g> And the valve covers were Filled with hard baked looking sludge which had obviously not seen oil for a long time. The inside of the sludge was the exact same shape as the rocker arms - like a mold of them. <g>

The oil pressure light bulb was not installed. <g> Apparently what had happened was that the oil pump failed so the previous owner had pretty much Filled the engine with oil, disabled the oil pressure light, and then sold the car to my father. My sister had checked the oil (had it checked at the gas station) and had always been told that she didn't need oil. <g> But eventually the oil level got to below the crankshaft and the engine seized.

My point is that the engine apparently survived adequately well for years with zero oil pressure - only submersion and splash-lubrication. So the idea that anything bad happens to an engine in the few seconds it takes to get full oil flow just seems pretty remote to me. <g>

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich91710 View Post
Yup. Every time, the engine is turning with no oil pressure.
Take the valve covers off of an old Chevy 350, pull the coil wire, and see how long you have to crank a cold engine before oil starts squirting out of the pushrods.

It's not a "long" time, but it's uncomfortable.
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Old 09-13-2013, 07:27 AM   #675
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Oh; and I have 118K on my 2007 Tacoma w/2.7 running Mobil 1

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Old 09-13-2013, 07:10 PM   #676
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Pretty hard to believe that story. The crank bearings could potentially be lubricated by splash and survive, but the camshaft would gall the bearings and seize very quickly, resulting in either a broken timing chain, or a broken camshaft.

Sorry. I do not believe you.
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Old 09-14-2013, 09:16 AM   #677
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Tons of pressure on a V8 lifter pushrod configuration. Somewhere south of 100 tons or 200,000 lbs per lifter face to camshaft lobe lift during operation. Once the oil wedge that is supporting the camshaft is gone,,it's a quick death. They wouldn't last long at all without lube. I know, you can youtube me all day long of pin it to win it motor blowups, but most of the time they are a failed motor anyways.
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Old 09-14-2013, 09:32 AM   #678
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That's OK

It did, and still does, seem impossible to me too - which is why I remembered it all this time. <g> My father would be the best reference but he is dead. I'm about 99% sure that my brother wasn't living anywhere close at the time, and I doubt that my sister could even remember the car, let alone the details of it's final end. <g>

Nonetheless; I called my brother just now (left a voicemail to call me) and I guess I give the incredible long shot of calling sister a call next.

I'll see what kind of confirmation I can come up with but I'm pretty sure I remember it pretty well. I can remember the baked-on and clearly non-oiled sludge in the valve covers like I just saw them yesterday. I worked on my own vehicles all the time back then; rebuild engines and so forth, so I knew what I was looking at. Which is what made me go fishing around in the oil pan sludge for any 'spare' parts. <g>

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Pretty hard to believe that story. The crank bearings could potentially be lubricated by splash and survive, but the camshaft would gall the bearings and seize very quickly, resulting in either a broken timing chain, or a broken camshaft.

Sorry. I do not believe you.
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Old 09-14-2013, 10:15 AM   #679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich91710 View Post
Ya, chain-driven OHC is a bit different because the chain is splash-oiled.
But the cam journals are dry on initial startup.

Start the 22R with the oil cap off and you'll have the same effect as with the rocker cover off.

And ya... I did it too.
Adjusted the valves on bro-in-law's Mazda GLC. Didn't even think about the chain and cranked it over to see if the valves "sounded ok" after setting everything to proper clearances.

Freaking mess.
,,And since the timing chain tensioner is oil pressure dependent, you want to keep good oil in the 20-22r's. Spendy tensioner when I bought mine nib. Had a pile o bucks in that 22R. TRD internal's, custom rods, Comp cams, matched head and intake flow work, custom header, custom 540 cfm carb. Pulled 275Hp out of the thing at a zillion rpms on the dyno back in 87. oil pressure was 75psi at full sing. A new Centerforce about every week, it just wouldn't hold it. Young, dumb and curious. Sold it and got my $5000 back out of it.
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Old 09-14-2013, 04:03 PM   #680
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,,And since the timing chain tensioner is oil pressure dependent, you want to keep good oil in the 20-22r's. Spendy tensioner when I bought mine nib. Had a pile o bucks in that 22R. TRD internal's, custom rods, Comp cams, matched head and intake flow work, custom header, custom 540 cfm carb. Pulled 275Hp out of the thing at a zillion rpms on the dyno back in 87. oil pressure was 75psi at full sing. A new Centerforce about every week, it just wouldn't hold it. Young, dumb and curious. Sold it and got my $5000 back out of it.
Yup... The one thing that could bring the "bulletproof" 22r series to it's knees is lack of regular oil changes.
Tensioner gums up, the guides wear, the chain stretches, and the cam goes out of time, causing loss of power, and eventually chain failure.
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