Phily Cop chokes person openly carrying

nope, i've never "tried-out", or even aspired to be LEO... that said, i am thankful for those who serve in LEO and military... w/out doubt they have a difficult task... the "diservice" i referred to is your outright conceited attitude, ...i don't think most citizens appreciate that... not all LEO are up to snuff on their gun handling, etc... that's what i've heard anyway from those who've trained me...

i'm trying to figure out what you've added to this thread other than insulting damn near everyone, including corrections officers, in general... like i said before, ...i'm very thankful you're not a judge...

 

i thought you took your ball and went home earlier?..

 

I never leave

 

Pretty ignorant... but I will say this, if you want to carry your weapon for "protection", because when seconds count, and we are only minutes away, and you LAWFULLY protect yourself by using deadly force, I'm gonna be completely ok with that. Thats one less vial of blood i have to give up, 1 less cup of piss i have to submit, and all in all, 1 less investigation i have to be a part of.

agree, read above.

2 things here.....
#1. anyone in law enforcement, or at least any person in law enforcement with half a brain would consider corrections being a more dangerous job, and would respect the CO's more so than some of the badge heavy assholes that are PO's.... I have personally worked both, PO is an easier position. Please dont comment on either position until you have worked them. Anyone can sit at home, and pretend that they know the job, please dont insult us with your ignorance.

#2. .:edit:. i read it wrong, so nevermind. I agree with you about the "after my dinner" comment.

Well said

We as LEO's ask questions, thats what we do. If you have issues with us asking you about your weapon your carrying, or why your carrying, or whatever, maybe you ought to be the one that leaves the country, and take you own devices with you. I see someone, lawfully carrying a weapon, i start thinking "What if's", and if me asking you questions about it makes me feel better about the situation, then so be it. You may look at it as "That PO is harassing me", but i look at it as a safety issue. I am going home every night to my wife, with that said, if i start asking you about your weapon, or as to why your have it, or whatever, and you want to get an attitude over it, this will only heighten my level of force used, end of story.

Well said.

What most people dont understand is that if i respond to a "shots fired" call, and see one of you open carrying guys, trying to save the world shooting at your "threat", which is a very dangerous situation for you to be in considering there is a high probability you might be shot by the police, who are trying to safely fix the situation. I arrive on scene, to see someone in civillian clothes shooting a weapon in a heavy populated area, im shooting your ass. All bullshit aside, we as LEO's are taught off duty response, and how dangerous it is considering if shit hits the fan, you might get shot by a fellow PO due to you being in plain clothes, and having your weapon out. So let me ask you, what do you, as a lawfull open carrying citizen going to do when shit hits the fan? You going to try to be a hero, and save the day, possibly getting shot by the Police who are trying to protect? Or should you use your head, gather what people are around you, and vacate the area? See, this is where the law is shady. You want to open carry lawfully, be my guest, just use your head.... know you might be mistaken for the "suspect". Know that you will be questioned, or "harassed" in your mind. Get over it, please... Truly put yourselves in our shoes, its not an easy thing to do, and people make mistakes.

 

i don't see how you interpret what i said as having an attitude,... show me where i'm wrong on the constitution, ..the presumption of innocence before guilt, due process, unreasonable search and seizure?... didn't you take an oath?... i understand LEO might get uneasy, not saying i blame you... but, you mustn't forget the things you've sworn to uphold... here in OH, open carry is "legal" statewide - not forbidden, nor licensed, ...and, in fact, it is not "lawful" here for an LEO here to willy nilly harrass/detain a law-abiding OC'er just because they get don't like it.... in fact LEO dept's here have been reprimanded for this very thing (akron, cleveland PD), ... i realize this may be differnet in philly, if you must "have papers" to OC even...

you may not like/agree completely w/ the things you've sworn to uphold, but you don't get to selectively change it on the street... sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, ..but it could come back to bite ya if you make a plaintiff out of the accused...

BTW, if you don't understand what makes us different from other countries where residents are subjects, rather than citizens, ...we may have a slight disagreement...

 

Your rhetoric floweth over

 

hmm... quite true ...brevity is the sould of wit...

 

By me using the term "You", i didnt mean you personally, i meant in general, so calm down. Your right, innocence before guilt, HOWEVER, if i am doing my job, in this subject, asking questions, ect about someone with a weapon, and the person im talking to decides to get an attitude, and uncooperative behavior, this changes things about my safety, his safety, and everyone elses safety.

Im glad that you live in OH, where an LEO cannot do his job lawfully by asking questions about open carry, Im also glad i dont live there, or work there. Let me ask you, there in OH, if i cant ask you questions about you open carrying your weapon, how am i to know that you are carrying it lawfully? You assume open carry law in OH is the same as everywhere, im not saying it is, im not saying it isnt, every state has their own laws, what im saying is if you want to be an open carrying person, and defend every law you possibly can think about being open carry, please do so, however, dont talk, assume, or comment like you have been in our shoes (being an LEO) about how we should act, or things that we should do, not do, ect. Some peoples worst nightmare, is an every day occurence for me. Im sorry, but if you dont like being questioned, asked, "harassed", or whatever, then dont wear your weapon, or get over it. There have been times off-duty, where store managers have asked me if i am shoplifting because he can notice something under my shirt. Do i make a big fuss about being "harassed"? No i dont. A simple explanation, and a "here is my badge and work ID", and im on my way. not a big deal.... Yeah, its annoying, but get over it.... show us all your an adult, get over it and move on.

My arguemant about this whole situation, and after reading the amount of bullshit in this thread is:

1. We all make mistakes. Yes, this isnt the first time Phila. has been in the news about this subject. Could Phily Police have handled this better? Yes... Could the CO not have been a dumbshit? Yes.... The difference between LEO and the every day citizen making a mistake is this... If a citizen makes a mistake, he is reprimanded and send on his way. If an LEO makes a mistake, the news makes it national, and people jump on the forums and talk shit about it for weeks and months at a time, until the news finds a different LEO to broadcast....

2. If you want to open carry, and can, be my guest and do it. All im saying, is use your head about doing it. Be prepared to have attention drawn to you, and if it is, act your age and get over it.

3. Dont assume or act like you know how to do our job. If you would like to schedule a ride along to see what we do, im sure your local PD will facilitate your request. Anyone can couch quarterback anything we do.... put yourself in our shoes. How are you going to act when someone is acting like a child, with a gun on his hip, and generally being a jackass? Or the dui you just pulled over that almost ran over some kids playing in their neighborhood...

Im not singling anyone out, or pointing the finger at anyone, i am sure someones vagina will hurt from my reply anyways tho.... be an adult and get over it, and move on.

 

frostbite,

largely agree w/ you here... no "body parts" injured,... from what i've heard, in OH there have been problems w/ some PDs, ..they've taken it upon themselves to harass/detain/arreest OC'ers - when they do not have the "legal" authority to - so, here, at least LEO has been put in check, a bit, in terms of confronting OC'ers - basically there must be a clear sign of lawbreaking or probable cause of doing something against the law... i.e. inciting panic generally doesn't fly from just a MWAG call since the courts have ruled OC constitutionally protected (CC requires the piece of paper)... as for asking for ID for merely OC'ing that's a fuzzy one here, ..i think it comes down to what constitutes a "terry stop"... LEO may question OC'er as result of a MWAG call, but generally they can't detain, let alone place under arrest for merely OCing... law is law, ...and sometimes the LEOs overstep it - grassroots activism and/or case law then usually ensues to rectify the situation... In fact many PD in OH (major cities) are still enforcing old city ordinances that are "illegal" since the state's preemption law passed years ago... Could it be true that the cops don't always KNOW the law as good us troglodites do - say it ain't so!!!... I for one, am not an OC'er, but generally don't like to see (any) existing freedoms eroded, ..so it is what it is...

i do not know what it's like to be an LEO, period... i can only assume the apprehension when confronting a stranger especially at at traffic stop... what i do know if LEO is serving the public, swears to an oath, and shall not violate the compact... some of the rhetoric we've seen thrown around in this thread (not trying to single you out) reeks of self-avowed LEO w/ a superiority complex - such folk don't seem to much care for my rights and question my "need", my "maturity", etc... where's the "professionalism" in that?...

 

I agree with you completely about how certain LEO's act like they are above the law, as a matter of fact, i just ran into one in Idaho while purchasing lotto tickets. Here is part of the email i sent my wife while i waited in line.

"Apparently not using your turn signal while turning into the only gas station in ******** idaho population 673 while attempting to to buy lottery tickets along with the rest of the state of utah, is the worst thing you can do, according to "deputy of the year" up there in ********..... the 5 foot nothing deputy gave me a ten minute lecture about it, threatening to impound my truck and book me into jail, even made me get out of my truck because he was too short and couldnt see over the window sill. Judging by his extremely small hands, nervous body language, and badge heavy attitude I'm sure its a case of small man syndrome"

Technically did i break the law? Yeah... Did Deputy of the year need to treat me in the manor he did with his verbal threats and attitude, even after knowing who i was and where I worked? No... Im held by the same laws i enforce, yeah, forgetting to use my turn signal while trying to navigate through an army of cars was a mistake, but clearly this guy believes hes above the law. Still, not a big deal, it made for a funny story waiting in line when all the other lotto ticket buyers asked me about it.

Unfortuneately, there are LEO's that taint us all, i just hope that the rest of us are given the benefit of the doubt.

 

Many police are fine individuals and I've worked with some very good ones. However, I've met some bad ones too.

In a West Coast city where I lived for several years the local police were notorious for not obeying traffic laws. Once I was stepping off a curb on a green pedestrian light when a police car, no lights or siren, drove into the bike lane on the right of the stopped cars to make a no-stop right turn and actually ran into me. No real damage but it did knock my legs out from under me and I "thwacked" his hood pretty good. The officer then screeched to a stop, got out and started yelling at me for "hitting his car." I told him "I didn't hit you, you hit me." He then got back into his car and sped off.

 

The Law is the law. It may not be of YOUR opinion, but the majority of people voted for the people who passed that bill into law. I disagree with the actions of the Sergent. But, if he acted accorrding with his local and state law, then it is legal.Personaly dont agree with the situation in the first place

 

10% rule applies to all jobs.
It is simple: 10% of all people doing any job shouldn't be.


I don't know why everyone gets all worked up over this shit. 10 years ago it was much worse. You just didn't see it plastered on web sites and the news.

This thread is pointless IMO and I don't understand the intent of it besides to start shit.

 

what bill open carry has been legal since the founding...what bill are you talking about?

 

#1. anyone in law enforcement, or at least any person in law enforcement with half a brain would consider corrections being a more dangerous job, and would respect the CO's more so than some of the badge heavy assholes that are PO's.... I have personally worked both, PO is an easier position. Please dont comment on either position until you have worked them. Anyone can sit at home, and pretend that they know the job, please dont insult us with your ignorance."

I spent a good part of my time as a LEO working drug cases. Many of those cases involved prison guards smuggling drugs and contra band into prisons for money. Its been a few years and that may have changed but overall, my impression of them was not good. Undoubtedly, its a dangerous, thankless job and it will never pay near enough. But in the states I am familiar with, both the educational and other requirements to be a police officer are significantly higher than those required to be a prison guard.

 

I you want to work a dangerous job work fire or EMS. Not only are we present in most of the dangerous situations that the police are, we are there unarmed. I've been threatened with everything from biting (deadly in this day of AIDS) to stabbing and shooting and I had to use my wits, not a gun, to resolve the situation.