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-   -   Tire spins too easily when brake applied (http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/4runners/272110-tire-spins-too-easily-when-brake-applied.html)

alexrosado 04-07-2013 08:21 AM

Tire spins too easily when brake applied
 
So yesterday I was changing the brake pads on my wife's 2005 4runner, we got done swapping them out and I had her hold the brakes while I tightened the lugs. On the drivers side I was able to tighten the lugs just fine, but on the passengers side when I went to crank em down to the same point I had the other side, the tire would rotate on me making it damn near impossible. What would cause the tire to be able to spin so easily?

Pugga 04-07-2013 08:51 AM

Did you bleed the brakes? Also, it's easier to torque the lug nuts when the vehicle is let down so the tires are touching the ground but not quiet supporting the entire vehicle's weight.

Plus, I'm not sure if brake boosters come into play. I'm assuming you did this while the truck was not running, correct? How's the pedal feel with the vehicle running?

alexrosado 04-07-2013 09:00 AM

yeah I bled the brakes. I'll try dropping it today just a bit and see how that treats me. and yeah the truck was off. What are brake boosters? They aren't really hard to pump, but for some reason I don't feel they're as stiff as they should be...

tan4x4 04-12-2013 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexrosado (Post 6707391)
yeah I bled the brakes. I'll try dropping it today just a bit and see how that treats me. and yeah the truck was off. What are brake boosters? They aren't really hard to pump, but for some reason I don't feel they're as stiff as they should be...

Possibly a sticking caliper on that side, or the pads are not installed properly.

From what you have said so far, you know very little about brakes,
and are a danger to anyone that lets you work on their vehicle. :eek:

Take it to a shop, until you gain more knowledge and experience.

ntilehman 04-12-2013 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tan4x4 (Post 6732126)
Possibly a sticking caliper on that side, or the pads are not installed properly.

From what you have said so far, you know very little about brakes,
and are a danger to anyone that lets you work on their vehicle. :eek:

Take it to a shop, until you gain more knowledge and experience.

x2 Glad I'm not driving around Ft. Hood. Brake booster is that giant round thing attached to your master cylinder reservoir (holds the brake fluid). It assists in pushing the pedal while the vehicle is running. Otherwise it becomes difficult to push the pedal down. First thing is first though, get someone who knows what they are doing to help you. Don't send the old lady down the road with some shatty brakes.

alexrosado 04-13-2013 07:33 AM

Well I'm asking the questions so I can learn. When I did them on my truck I had a buddy help me who knew what he was doing, and I did it the same way we did it on my truck except when we did it on my truck we were able to tighten all the lugs by just applying the brakes vs just lowering it down. I don't know shit about vehicles which is why I'm on here trying to learn...

ntilehman 04-13-2013 08:14 AM

OK. Without pictures it is hard to play tech on the internet. That's why we suggested that you get someone who knows what they are doing again to check it out in person for you. You can't learn how to do something watching someone once. Just not going to happen.
Basics of a brake job:
-resurface or get new rotors
-quality brake pads/shoes that match exactly like the old ones
-couple cans of brake cleaner to get the packing oil and finger grease off them
-anitseize to put where the pads will be sliding in the caliper mount and any other metal to metal that moves
-sylglide or other thick temp resistant grease for the slides in the caliper that let it float
-open bleeder screw before pressing the piston back in the caliper(you dont want dirty fluid going back in the system)
-If rear is drum then properly adj them
-bleed all the brakes usually starting with the one furthest from the master cylinder

All of this is somewhat vauge but it is the basics and you should have someone there who knows what they are doing to oversee this. You are in the Navy so you should be used to getting micro managed. Suck up a little pride and ask someone local to help.

alexrosado 04-13-2013 08:55 AM

I'm in the army, not the navy, but I get what you're saying. Thanks for the info.

ntilehman 04-13-2013 06:55 PM

Sorry I couldn't make out the icon. It's too small for me.

alexrosado 04-13-2013 10:04 PM

You're good man, again I appreciate the help!

offroadwonder 04-13-2013 10:31 PM

Yup, stuck caliper or collapsed brake line. How was the wear on those pads vs the other side?

However, before you do any driving in that vehicle you should have someone knowledgeable go through your brakes. As others have mentioned, brakes are a safety item and are not the appropriate project to start learning about your vehicle. Kudos for getting dirty, but don't get anyone killed in the process.

alexrosado 04-14-2013 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offroadwonder (Post 6738979)
Yup, stuck caliper or collapsed brake line. How was the wear on those pads vs the other side?

However, before you do any driving in that vehicle you should have someone knowledgeable go through your brakes. As others have mentioned, brakes are a safety item and are not the appropriate project to start learning about your vehicle. Kudos for getting dirty, but don't get anyone killed in the process.

Ok I will, the wear looked pretty even to me on both pads.

tacoma4 04-14-2013 09:51 AM

Agree with the above guys on getting it checked out, better safe than sorry.

It could be something really simple though, did she let off the brakes between you tightening the driver and passenger side? Since you had the engine off, when she pushed the pedal down first, it would extend the pistons in the caliper fully and grip the wheel, but you then lose the vacuum pressure in the booster. If she let off, then pushed again to do the passenger side, you don't have the added pressure from the booster, meaning she would have to push a lot harder to get the pistons to extend. So its possible that they are both OK. Easy way to check would be to have the truck running, push the brake and try to tighten the lugs / spin the wheel. If it still spins easy, then you will know there's some other issue going on.

Also, if this was right after you changed the pads, you probably pushed the pistons back into the caliper to get the new pads in right? If so, you need to pump the brakes a few times to get the pistons to come back out and seat with the new pads. If you just push down and hold, they might not be fully extended and holding the brake pad against the rotor tight.

Seems unlikely to have a bad caliper on such a new car and generally changing pads is a pretty simple process, hard to screw up. But if you are not sure, definitely get it checked out, don't want to need your brakes and not have them!!

offroadwonder 04-14-2013 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacoma4 (Post 6740128)
Agree with the above guys on getting it checked out, better safe than sorry.

It could be something really simple though, did she let off the brakes between you tightening the driver and passenger side? Since you had the engine off, when she pushed the pedal down first, it would extend the pistons in the caliper fully and grip the wheel, but you then lose the vacuum pressure in the booster. If she let off, then pushed again to do the passenger side, you don't have the added pressure from the booster, meaning she would have to push a lot harder to get the pistons to extend. So its possible that they are both OK. Easy way to check would be to have the truck running, push the brake and try to tighten the lugs / spin the wheel. If it still spins easy, then you will know there's some other issue going on.

Also, if this was right after you changed the pads, you probably pushed the pistons back into the caliper to get the new pads in right? If so, you need to pump the brakes a few times to get the pistons to come back out and seat with the new pads. If you just push down and hold, they might not be fully extended and holding the brake pad against the rotor tight.

Seems unlikely to have a bad caliper on such a new car and generally changing pads is a pretty simple process, hard to screw up. But if you are not sure, definitely get it checked out, don't want to need your brakes and not have them!!

So, yes and no... You have a point that I didn't consider just because it is such a built in part of the brake change process. Compressing the piston back into the caliper during the brake change does push a lot of fluid back into the reservoir. You have to cycle the pedal several times to get the pads back where they belong against the rotor. That could definitely have caused the issue.

However, the power brakes would not have anything to do with stopping the wheel from spinning under the torque applied from a wrench on a lug. A 4000 lb truck sitting on a steep driveway can apply almost 200 ft-lbs of torque per wheel to the brakes just to keep it from rolling down the driveway (depending on the angle of the driveway and the size of the tires). So as you can imagine getting the truck to stop from 60 mph applies a tremendous amount of torque; MUCH greater than could ever possibly be applied by a wrench on a lug. The brakes would easily hold the ~100 ft-lbs applied against the lug even without a working power brake booster.

Secondly, I believe he mentioned the truck was an '05. Unfortunately a 2005 is an aging truck at this point (approaching a decade old). Just last month I replaced a front caliper on a 2007 4runner because it was so badly frozen we broke a brake compressor trying to compress the pistons into the caliper. (By the way, just because it compresses does not mean that it is operating properly).

TrdSurgie 04-14-2013 10:04 PM

Does the Army not have a hobby shop on base?

alexrosado 04-15-2013 12:57 PM

After I bled the brakes I pumped em to move the pistons back. As far as I know she didn't let off of em. I'm taking it today to get checked out and let y'all know what I find out. Thanks again.

alexrosado 04-15-2013 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrdSurgie (Post 6742864)
Does the Army not have a hobby shop on base?

What point are you trying to make with that comment?

alexrosado 04-15-2013 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacoma4 (Post 6740128)
Agree with the above guys on getting it checked out, better safe than sorry.

It could be something really simple though, did she let off the brakes between you tightening the driver and passenger side? Since you had the engine off, when she pushed the pedal down first, it would extend the pistons in the caliper fully and grip the wheel, but you then lose the vacuum pressure in the booster. If she let off, then pushed again to do the passenger side, you don't have the added pressure from the booster, meaning she would have to push a lot harder to get the pistons to extend. So its possible that they are both OK. Easy way to check would be to have the truck running, push the brake and try to tighten the lugs / spin the wheel. If it still spins easy, then you will know there's some other issue going on.

Also, if this was right after you changed the pads, you probably pushed the pistons back into the caliper to get the new pads in right? If so, you need to pump the brakes a few times to get the pistons to come back out and seat with the new pads. If you just push down and hold, they might not be fully extended and holding the brake pad against the rotor tight.

Seems unlikely to have a bad caliper on such a new car and generally changing pads is a pretty simple process, hard to screw up. But if you are not sure, definitely get it checked out, don't want to need your brakes and not have them!!

Also on a side note with the year thing, it may be an 05 but she has a lot of miles on her (185k)

skytower 04-15-2013 03:42 PM

Tightening the lugs with a wrench should be done with the lugs snug, with the wheel on the ground.
Once the caliper piston(s) is(are) extended, your brakes should be able to stop you from turning the wheel. If not, you have other problems.

EDJY 04-15-2013 03:43 PM

Did you bother pumping up the brakes? Without the engine running, you probably need to give the brake pedal a few good pumps to get it feeling firm on the pedal and enough pressure in the system.

If your trying to learn to do maintenance yourself this is a great place to learn. You may want to start with something easier and less critical for the safety of the vehicle. If you screw up something with the brakes you may not full realize it until your half a mile down the road unable to stop at the red light.


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