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Is an amp worth it for my 6x9s?

Discussion in 'Audio & Video' started by Polymerhead, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. Sep 21, 2012 at 4:30 AM
    #1
    Polymerhead

    Polymerhead [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I'm running a Kenwood media receiver in my taco that is rated at 40w RMS/channel. Powering two Alpine Type S 6x9 coaxials, and hooked to a powered SO 8" sub. I'm running the HU crossover filters, and gettting pretty clean sound out of the speakers.

    Question - if I drop $70 on a little 125w Rockford Fosgate 2 channel amp and wire the 6x9s to it, am I going to be able to tell a difference in sound quality or volume? Do you think it's worth the expense? I'm not looking to rattle windows, but I do feel like the 6x9s do have to work hard to keep up with the powered sub. I also need to get in and clip the wiring on the factory tweeters - they did a great job of handling the signal from the HU but I'm finally starting to notice their hiss as I tweak and tune my budget system.

    The amp is rated around 40w RMS/channel when not bridged, but I assume this 40w would be more realistic, constant and cleaner than the 40w/channel coming out of the HU? Or am I way off base?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Sep 21, 2012 at 4:50 AM
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    ProForce

    ProForce IG @proforce.expeditions OB#5411

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    First off, yes, an amp is well worth the investment hands down. Even a simple amp (as long as its not a crappy off brand eBay amp). Rockford fosgate makes an exceptional entry level good quality amp so you can go wrong with that for a simple system. Your amp wattage rating you listed is fine for what your purpose is. It will not push your speakers beyond their limits, and certainly not win competitions. What it will do however, is make your sound more crisp and clean at regular listening volume, as well as enable you to raise the volume even more without distorting the speakers. I say go for it, and I am a mobile electronics professional.

    BUT, having said that... I see only 1 problem with your above mentioned setup. You said it is a 2 channel amp.... 95+% of 2ch amps are designed SPECIFICALLY for use with subs. Meaning that they only have a LPF (low pass filter) and not an HPF (high pass filter) adjustment.

    Assuming your not familiar with these functions, I'll explain. A subwoofer typically handles frequencies below 80hrz. Speakers handle anything above (its more complicated than that but let's keep it simple for now) when adjusting the EQ settings for a sub, you may see a setting for LPF... this gives you the options to choose which frequency the sub gets cut off at. This options typically ranges from 100hrz, 80hrz, 50hrz, and off, which would allow all frequency to pass through and you would hear too high of sounds coming from your sub. The optimal setting is 80hrz. Choosing this on a LPF will allow nothing ABOVE 80hrz to pass through. The opposite occurs for speakers. If you chose 80hrs on a HPF for speaker, that means nothing BELOW 80 will pass to the speakers to block bass frequencies.

    Now that that is explained, going back to the amp you chose. If it is a 2ch, it is most likely designed to be subwoofer amp and will definitely have a LPF option. If it does not have the option to select a HPF instead, then this will not work for your speaker. It must have a HPF setting, or neither.

    Hope this helps :)
     
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  3. Sep 21, 2012 at 9:22 AM
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    Hillingdoner

    Hillingdoner Well-Known Member

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    Confused.

    Not meaning this as a bash or slam in any way, just verifying, but don't you mean most mono (single channel) amps have a LPF only?

    Typically the Fosgate 2 channels have a switched xover so you have either LP, AP or HP available. If you are using your HU to control the xover points then you can set the amp to AP as the signal provided by the hu through the rcas to the amp will already be crossed over. If you are going to use the amp for xover then it is as ProForce says, you will want to set to HP and then set the xover point desired.

    Agree an amp would be a good addition. Just be sure to set your gains correctly and wire safely with fuse protection etc. Which model Fosgate are you looking at getting?
     
  4. Sep 21, 2012 at 2:46 PM
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    Aw9d

    Aw9d That one guy

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    For all these amps you don't need HP, you just need AP as your are going to send a full signal to the speakers, not just the high pass. If you send just the highs to the it will sound terrible.

    You'll use the freq adjuster on the amp to set them.. I'd set the amp to AP, at 80-100hz depending on how it sounds.
     
  5. Sep 21, 2012 at 4:36 PM
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    ProForce

    ProForce IG @proforce.expeditions OB#5411

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    Yeah i guess i did make my statement somewhat confusing and controversial... these
    quotes are correct. You need to make sure this 2 channel amp has and all pass setting, then adjust from the head unit.

    For some reason I confused myself and thought you had a sub as well, which means then you would need your HPF on the amp, but without a sub, you don't want to limit sound frequency to your speakers with any such filter (at the amp level atleast) that should be done from the radio eq if any at all.

    So my point was that SOME 2ch amps are designed specifically for subs (just like most 1ch) and therefore sometimes don't give the option to turn off your LPF, its somewhat built in. I'm sure any decent amp like your mentioned RF will be just fine. But be sure to double check that you can eliminate or turn off and HPF or LPF and give your speakers all sound frequencies by turning this option off.

    Just to clarify, you will not see "apf" on the amp, it will simply by a 2 or 3 way switch with the setting LPF/OFF or LPF/OFF/HPF. Just make sure filters can be turned off.

    Sorry to make myself so confusing and conflicting in my first comment... I had not slept in over 30 hours and was not really paying attention to what I typed.
     
  6. Sep 21, 2012 at 4:38 PM
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    Polymerhead

    Polymerhead [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Thanks!! So, this is the amp. From what I can tell, it's designed to work as a 2-channel for speakers or as a bridged unit for a sub.

    http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/prod...x?itemid=233187&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

    As I mentioned - I have crossover in the Kenwood HU that I'm using. I have it set to about 100hz for the 8" sub and about 90hz for the speakers. You guys are saying that I should just send the signal through to the amp if I get it and then tune at the amp?

    The Kenwood HU I'm running is pretty programable. I'm just concerned that I'm going to buy an amp and have no discernible improvement in sound going from my 40w RMS HU to a 40w RMS amp as a power source.
     
  7. Sep 21, 2012 at 10:59 PM
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    ProForce

    ProForce IG @proforce.expeditions OB#5411

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    You will absolutely have improvements. May not be much, but sound clarity and overall quality, as well as peak volume levels will increase alot with any amp. That's what they do.

    Your amp will work fine. No you don't let all the sound through and then tune the amp the way you describes. To properly tune a system, your amp mist be tuned first, then the head unit after. Start by turning off any EQ adjustment you have on the deck. Turn the sub off. No H/LPF, no gains, no EQ, no nothing. Just a straight flat signal. Turn volume to about 60-75% of Max volume on the deck. Be sure to keep your amp gains all the way down. Now adjust your gains to give you peak volume. It will be very very loud at this point... that's OK. With the volume very loud, it should be clean and crisp with no clipping or distortion. Now adjust any other setting on your amp including your HPF and any other settings. Once your speakers sound bad ass with your amp alone, its time to fine tune the eq. Go to your head unit, leave the volume up. Tune your eq to achieve desired acoustics. Make any other adjustments. Make sure during all the above steps, your sub is completely off or unplugged! Once your speakers are perfect, turn the sub on and repeat the entire process for all the sub settings. Now your system is tuned and volume can be reduced to normal listening volume.
     
  8. Sep 22, 2012 at 4:38 AM
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    Hillingdoner

    Hillingdoner Well-Known Member

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    ^this Follow step by step and get everything set.

    I missed the part about your setting everything at the HU and I'd not been up for 30 hours :D, just flat missed it.:eek: So yes at the amp set it to the AP setting on it. The Prime series of RF amp are decent amps. Put out as advertised. My own personal preference is the Punch series, but they are more money even on a factory refurb p200-2 in at around $110. The Prime would still be well worth adding for the reasons ProForce gave. I think you'll be pleased once all installed and set correctly.

    Might help also to deaden and seal your doors if you have not. More work and not on topic, but does help improve.

    Cheers
     
  9. Sep 22, 2012 at 4:45 AM
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    Polymerhead

    Polymerhead [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Awesome, thanks guys. I have added a bit of dynamat but I'll be able to do it again/correctly when I pull the doors to wire everything up.

    Much appreciated!
     
  10. Sep 26, 2012 at 7:39 PM
    #10
    Polymerhead

    Polymerhead [OP] Well-Known Member

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    By the way - no amp yet but I did go back and tune my speakers like ProForce mentioned, with the sub off and then with the sub on and ended up pulling the crossover level up on the 6x9s and pulling the crossover down on the sub a bit and I can get about 5 clicks more volume out of my system before I start to get distortion now. So, big difference just from that! Once I pay off my hail deductible I'll definitely be picking up an amp to see what it can do.

    Thanks!!
     

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