Rock Sliders: welded or bolt on...

Oooooh Nice!

 

Thanks, I still have a lot to learn. And before everyone rips my welds... I just bought my Millermatic 211 this week. I plan to research and practice as often as possible before welding anything significant. Any and all input is always welcome.

 

Thanks

 

Anytime

 

The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act and opinion letters issued by the FTC state that a manufacturer cannot summarily void warranty coverage on a vehicle based on a consumer's use of after-market parts or modifications unless the defect was caused by the after-market part or the modification. This means that warranty coverage for premature rusting of the frame cannot be voided or rejected if that rusting is not located at the affected locations near the gusset/frame plate and connection points etc... I tried to find appellate court cases addressing this issue but all I could find is a case involving a buyer who learned, after purchase, that his car, which was bought used but within the warranty period, had been modified by the first owner. He argued, unsuccessfully, that the dealership from whom he purchased the vehicle was required to accept a return and issue a full refund, alleging the modifications were a material defect of which he should have been informed. He argued that the modifications rendered the warranty null and void. The court disagreed and cited the Magnuson Moss Act. Otherwise, the lack of state cases that made it to appeal suggests to me that dealerships and the manufacturer will relent if they're summoned into court knowing that, pursuant to the Act, they have the burden to prove the defect was caused by the after-market part or modification, and everyone in TW is capable of pursuing a claim in conciliation/small claims court.

 

You have no idea what you're taking about. Welding them on does not void the warranty, and the insurance company does not care. I've had underwriter agents look at my truck in person for insurance rider verification, and all I receive is a ton of compliments. Do what you like, but don't spread FUD!

 

why would the insurance care? unless they asked you if you off-road and you told them "no" and they adjusted the price accordingly. But the insurance still wouldn't care, they just wouldn't cover it if you wrecked it off road.

 

I too am in the preliminary stages of shopping around for sliders -- deciding from whom to buy and whether to go bolt-on or weld etc. My main concern about welding was what I assumed would be the greater propensity to bend the frame in the event of a hard impact against the slider -- side impact collision or hard hit against a rock or whatever. In expressing this concern to a friend who works as a mechanical engineer, he indicated that the bolt-on setup would give rise to the greater risk for structural damage to the frame, especially at the connection points for the grade 8 bolts. Upon impact, a grade 8 bolt isn't going to be what bends or breaks. It would be the slider bars and/or the frame. And the few bolts provide minimal square-inch coverage to dampen or absorb the stress compared to the weld points that provide greater space for absorption of a blow. The bolts will wrench and torque the frame. In a welded slider, you'd have a better chance of having the slider breaking or the entire frame (and vehicle) simply moving without the frame bending. He also indicated that a welded on slider, that involves no drilling, could actually fortify the frame rather than weaken it. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

im doing mine bolt on with grade 8 bolts.

 

I have bolt on sliders on mine. They've been great. I do rust maintenance in the spring and fall underneath the truck. It's worked well so far.

 

Pelfreybilt indicates their sliders are for weld-on only. Nothing stated about bolt-on.

 

Show your friend the frame rails of the Tacoma and show him how the bolt-on and weld-on sliders actually look, and he'll have a different opinion. I believe his assumption is that the frame is infinitely rigid and therefore, the weak links are at the welds or the bolts of the sliders. In reality, it's not. The frame rails are C sections or open members, and they suck in taking any torsion or twisting. With a slider is attached to a frame rail, that's exactly the type of loading you're going to put on the frame when you're out wheeling over rocks.

If you're welding the legs of the slider directly to your frame, every time that slider is loaded, it puts a bending moment at the base of each leg, twisting the frame locally at each connection. The smaller the weld footprint, the worse the effect on the frame. Another potential issue is warpage on the frame due to the heat of the welds.

Most bolt-on sliders come with a giant plate that wraps around the frame rail. This actually spreads out the load to a larger area on the frame and provide more stiffening on the weak member. The twisting effect is still there, but you now have the baseplate spreading that out to a larger area. The bolts will be put in tension, and if they're sized big enough, should be just as strong as a weld in taking that load.

That's how I reasoned myself into buying bolt-on sliders

 

I was worried about all the torsional stress on my tires and wheels, so I welded them on. No way six lugnuts will hold up to the wheeling I do.

 

I'm welding mine. The only remaining issue is whether to pay someone to do it or take a community ed welding course and do it myself. Physics prevails: the wrenching and torquing effect of a grade 8 bolt on that frame... No brainier.

 

I have been building and wheeling bolt on sliders for over 10 years, and seen dozens of rigs put them to the test. Obviously a proper fastening set up is just as important as a good weld, but rest assured when properly fastened a set of bolt-on sliders will take anything a set of weld-on sliders will.

The only real difference is one can be installed with hand tools and removed with hand tools if desired, the other requires a welder and some extensive effort if you you want them removed.

 

I know a girl who wheels more than 90% of the people on this forum with bolt ons, never had an issue.

 

I have bolt ons, I think frankly it doesn't matter - I would prefer a bolt on slider with a proper L brace plate and gusseted bars than just welded on bars with a flat plate. Look at the all pro apex sliders for example (which is what I have) I can tell you flat out, bolted on, they aren't moving ANYWHERE, and are likely adding structural rigidity to the truck... I could have also welded them on but didn't want to.

 

I love my bolt on sliders they're super beefy and I've definitely put them to the test and never have I been worried about them, I do check the bolts regularly and they are gr8, after the first week I retorqued them haven't had to since