Pouring concrete stairs?

Getting ready to pour a set of concrete steps for the front porch.

3 rises of 7", runs of 10", 4' long.

I'm going to wrap them in stone veneer on the sides and across the front of the rises.

My question is this...Can i pour the treads separately off to the side and place them on the stairs when i'm done, or do I need to pour them at the same time and tie everything in together?

My thinking is if I pour them and then lift them and place them on the steps, if my steps were to crack, the tops would be separate and wouldn't crack. Maybe lay a layer of 30lb felt on the step then put the cap on??? Weight of the cap would keep it in place I would think. Or is this a horrible idea?

 

By nature, concrete cracks. If that will really drive you nuts, then you can set the threads separately. If you go that route though, I would not set them on felt, I would use mortar and mud set them to keep the in place and prevent water from getting underneath them. If it were me, I'd just pour them in place and be done with it or find stone treads to set on top. Forming and pouring the treads separately just seems like an awful lot of work for nothing.

Also, proper reinforcement, a properly mixed concrete and carefully placed saw cuts can significantly reduce unwanted cracks.

 

Seperate treads would be heavy as shit to move , I pour lintels and caps for stonework and the are suprisingly heavy

Is this going to be a monolithic pour of a big block of concrete ? ie 21"x 30" x 48" ?

 

Going to be pouring bag by bag. Roughly 20 80lb bags.
I've already poured the footer and filled the middle part with broken up concrete. Left about 4-5" on each side for solid concrete.

Plan on putting concrete wire on top of the broken concrete. Have rebar sticking up from the footer and plan on using 1/2" rebar throughout the steps.

I'm just wondering before i build my forms if I should just go ahead and form up the caps with them, or put a separate cap on them? Home Depot has 12x24" patio stone that would look good as a cap, but I would have a gap between them. And I think thats probably not a good idea due to risk of water.

 

Depends on your budget but you could also go with cut bluestone treads

That might tie in with your stone veneer look

 

So I have a problem now.

I poured my stairs this weekend. 3 steps high, 4' wide, 10" run, 7" rise.

I also framed up an 1 1/2" lip on each step so I can add stacked stone under each step. So i basically have a 51"x11 1/2" cap on each step. Hope that makes sense. I'll try and get some pics tonight.

My problem is I dont think I waited long enough before I took the forms off and when i did, that 1 1/2" overhang I made cracked and some of it fell off. Now i have chips on 2 of the 3 steps.

Something like this on every overhang...Its like the entire 1 1/2" overhang broke off on some places like the 2nd pic below and some of them only chipped the overhang...So frustrating. It looked awesome and I think I got in too big of a hurry before i took the forms off...Concrete wasnt fully set up yet.


Is there a good way to repair this? I see Lowes and HD carry a concrete crack and chip repair mix. I'm guessing just reform it and use that?

 

Concrete doesn't really stick well in the way you want to fix that .

 

These guys make some good concrete repair products

http://www.abatron.com/buildingandrestorationproducts/concretemaintenance/aboweld551.html

 

Yeah I know...I've been watching videos all morning of people repairing concrete and showing before and after and then 2 yrs after and it still looks good.

Hopefully I can accomplish something with it.

 

To paraphrase The Graduate:
Latex

A little antifreeze and a little latex in the mix.
Cover after pour, keep damp, and cure slowly.

 

Bonding to the existing concrete is going to be the problem

 

Some kind of bonding agent , yes

 

Along side the bonding agent something to connect the new lip to the existing e.i. wire rebar so its not just a concrete to concrete bond.

You mentioned a stone veneer was that just going to the sides and faces? You could find stone and just use your steps as the structure and cover them so the busted lips dissapear.

 

Just veneer the risers and sides first and cut flush at the top. Then MORTAR set your cap, whatever you so choose, and set it to have a 1'' over hang....

I dont understand the need for the 1'' lip in the concrete if your putting some type of cap on it? And i would say near impossible to repour that small of a peice and get it to adhere to concrete

 

^

 

Here are a few pics.

The lip is so I can put the veneer underneath it on the sides and front.

This was my first time doing a lip on steps and I just flat out screwed it up and broke like 75% of them.

My plan is to drill into the chipped part and instert tapcon screws or something similiar...something for the new concrete to grab to. Then paint with bonding agent. Wrap some kind of wire around the heads of the tapcons and try and form it up like before.
I'm not optimistic its going to stay, but its the only shot i've got i think. Other than getting a concrete saw and cutting the lip off and do what OZ said and get stone caps made.

 

I tend to step on the lip of steps, if they were my steps I'd cut it and cap it.

 

Problem is if I cut and cap, my two bottom steps will be 7", but my top step will then be only 5".

I'm starting to think my best bet is to tear out and redo. I've only got about $100 in it so far.

I would like to try and patch first.

I've spent all morning calling around trying to get limestone caps. Nobody in my area sells them...

 

I've used 1/4" or 3/8" redi rod as rebar in small concrete sill jobs , you could tie that to the tapcon heads if there is enough room

 

Build up the sub base at the bottom step by 2" and put stone on the landing and all the rises would be equal