Focal speakers distorting!! Tuning help plz

So i just got an alpine pdx-v9 amp (100 watts rms x 4), Focal Flax components in front and Focal Access speakers in rear (both 6.5" and 70 RMS, 120 max), all run off a Pioneer NEX4000 head unit. Also got some epic sound deadning from sounddeadnershowdown, all installed. Sub is coming, but not in yet.

My issue is that when i turn it up (and still not as loud as i'd like), the speakers distort pretty bad. When a bass punch comes along it sounds like the speakers are gonna blow. I played with the gain a bit with no change. If i adjust the crossover it helps, but the sound quality is ALOT worse and i paid a lotta dough for these speakers.

My question is how do you Focal users have your gains and crossover settings set? With no crossover restrictions the speakers sound amazing, but i cannot go loud. Turn up the crossover and they can go loud but sound about as good as a pair of $100 Pioneer speakers....

 

Gain down. Turn the voolume knob lower.

Whooo, this is gonna be fun.

See this basic guide on Crutchfeild.

1. Before turning on your system, make sure your amplifier's gains are set to their minimums, their high- and low-pass filters are off (set to "all pass" or flat), and that any bass and treble boosts are also off.
2. Turn on all the units of your system. Set your receiver's tone or EQ controls, its balance, and its fade to their middle, off, or flat positions. Note where the settings were as you might want to restore them later. If you have a subwoofer in your system, turn its amp gain all the way down.
3. Play your test music. That's a recording you are very familiar with and know what it's supposed to sound like. It has plenty of sonic variety: lots of very high notes like flutes, brass, and cymbals, lots of mid-range content like piano, guitar, and vocals, and lots of very low notes like bass and drums. And you will listen to it over and over again. (For steps 4 through 10, while you're setting the amplifier's gains, it is best to play the loudest passages of your song selection.)
4. Set the receiver's fade control all the way to the front speakers.
5. With your amplifier's gain controls still all the way down, turn the receiver's volume up to ¾ full, or until the music sounds distorted. (If you don't hear any music at all, try turning the amp's front gain control up slightly until you do.) If you hear distortion, turn down the receiver's volume until the distortion goes away and the music sounds clean.
6. Now turn up the front gain control of your amp until the music distorts, then turn it down so it plays clean again.
7. Turn the receiver volume down.
8. Set the receiver's fade control all the way to the rear speakers.
9. Again, turn the receiver's volume up to ¾ full and turn up the rear gain control of your amp until the music distorts, then turn it down so it plays clean again.
10. Turn the receiver volume down.
11. If you have no subwoofer in your system, restore your receiver's original tone, balance, and fade settings now. Or, you can refer to "How to Tune a Car Sound System: Part 1" for help in tuning your stereo to sound its best. Another tip is to engage the high-pass filter on the front channels of your 4-channel amp, and tune it to eliminate some of the low notes coming from the front speakers in order to bring extra clarity to your soundstage. (That's the ability of your stereo to sound like a band is playing in front of you, live in your car.)
12. If you do have a subwoofer in your system, adjust the receiver's fade control to the front speakers only and turn up the volume until the music is loud, but not uncomfortable. Engage the high-pass filter of the amplifier's front channels and adjust it so the bass notes disappear. Fade the receiver to the rear speakers only and engage and adjust the rear channels' high-pass filter until the bass disappears there too. Return your receiver's fade control to its original position.
13. Slowly turn up the gain of your subwoofer amplifier until the bass notes sound balanced and smoothly blended with the rest of the music. Your sub amp's low-pass filter should already be tuned to reproduce only the low notes. You can refer to Tuning Your Subs, for help in fine-tuning your subwoofer system.
14. If your highs and lows seem balanced but the bass sounds like it's coming from the rear, adjust the sub amp's low-pass filter lower to "de-localize" it. Pay close attention to the "crossover area", the parts of the music played by both the full-range speakers and your subwoofer. Smooth any roughness by fine-tuning the filters. For instance, if the vocals sound tinny, you can adjust the high-pass filters on your 4-channel amp to include more low notes. If the vocals sound boomy, tune the high-pass filters higher.

From here feel play.

 

What frequency are your speakers rated for? 50 or 65 hz to 20,000hz? I've found i have to set up the HPF a notch higher (especially when i have a sub).

 

PCYC, thanks, and not to steer this thread away, but how did you mod your bass knob to fit in the switch area like that? i have the same knob and wanna copy that.

 

theyre rated for 60 hz... I just feel like i am losing so much SQ when i have to go up that high with the HPF

 

oh man, someone found out that Focal speakers aren't good at midbass

 

Everyone said that they are awesome at midbass before i got em...

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/audio-video/342233-best-speakers.html

 

It's tough for many 6.5" drivers to play that low at loud volumes. I have Hybrid Legatia L6 mids and don't dare play them that low for every day listening. My sub plays that region much better than my mids. Just be patient...or risk blowing your speakers.

 

sorry man, there is a huge amount of circlejerking for expensive speakers that don't really sound that great [to me].

just like home audio, i believe the subwoofer should do just that. your front woofers should cover most of the bass region [down to 80Hz or so] with authority. i think you should be able to play without a sub and still hear 90% of your music.

this also helps tuning by getting more bass capability up front. less time alignment adjustments/issues later.

 

Welp i just went out on my lunch break and adjusted the xover on the amp and turned the gain down to pretty much nothing. HUGE difference. I didnt pay attention to the fact that the speakers only specify that they go to 60Hz, and i was trying to get them to play lower than that. Once my sub comes ill turn the xover up more, to like 80hz or so, and i should be happy.

Guess i just expected too much outta my new speakers. Definitely need a sub still to make a full range of sound. And yes, there is a ton of circle jerking around expensive speakers.

I am learning that doubling your price only gets you a small improvement in SQ. This system is done right from head to toe, and still leaves me wanting more. More tuning will help.. thanks all

 

I've listened to many other installs that range from cheap to expensive and as I got to the higher end, there was a major improvement. Sure there is a point of diminishing returns, but I still prefer my stereo over others I've heard. These speakers get crazy loud with no signs of distortion. There are some install things I want to change, but it's not to address speaker limitations.

 

You talking about Focal Flax?

 

I have not heard those, so I can't comment on them. The point of identifying my speaker type was not to be pretentious, but as a matter of fact that their resonant frequency is 45 Hz and I don't dare even go down to 60 Hz. Specified operating frequency range is only the tip of the iceberg. There's a lot more measured data to look at in making your decisions. Since I was trying to keep it 2 way and like my music loud, off axis response, sensitivity, and distortion plots were big factors. I'm sure there are other speakers that have more midbass than my speakers, but every one had their tradeoffs. In the end I went with something that met the majority of my criteria. Do I wish I could have spent less? Hell yea! But I'm not going to boast about how I have extra money to burn.

 

Get bass blockers for the tweets. That will prevent the lower freqencies from going to the tweets.

/ thread

 

Ranger. I have a thread on it.

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/audio-video/246869-stealth-sub-knob.html

 

And dont get BASS blockers. You have Crossovers. just keep it un boomy until you get a sub. Do it right the first time...

 

Ya... i will not be getting bass blockers, just some good time tuning is what ill need. Also i will be cutting my switch filler to do the same thing as you, hopefully it all makes sense when i start it. Thanks for the tip, i wasnt looking forward to having that AND my trailer brake controller down by my knee

Am i the only one with a (sort of) higher end system that doesnt run some kind of processor? I dont know anything about em, and was thinking i could get by with just the tuning capabilities of the NEX receiver....

 

My focals have amazing mid bass (P165 v30). And they are clean as hell too.

 

Your crossover needs to be around 80-90hz for what your trying to do. And do not add bass blockers. You are asking your speakers to do a subwoofers job right now which will end badly. The flax are awesome speakers and have very good midbass response but 60hz is not really considered midbass, it's subwoofer territory.

 

Glad we could help!
Can you adjust the slopes on your crossover? My deh-p880prs can. not sure about the newer pioneers.

I learned the same thing you did years ago, much trial and error to get it to sound good. Glad the 880prs has a 13 band eq and highly adjustable crossover.