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Old 10-07-2013, 09:19 PM   #1
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Arizona CCW

Has anyone taken a course recently that was worthwhile? I am not really interested in a fast, quick course, would rather have something really in depth where all facets of the law and use of force are covered.

My other question is about the permit itself. Is it worth getting after taking a class? I don't really travel to other states, and I don't plan on buying firearms in the near future. For those of you that have the permit, have there been times when you benefited from it?
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Old 10-07-2013, 09:31 PM   #2
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If you are at least 21 years old, a permit to carry concealed in Arizona is no longer required. You can still take the class and even obtain a permit, but it isn't a requirement. By taking the class, you will gain insight into the instructors perspective on use of force, but the bottom line is you better have a fear for your life (or someone else's life you intend to protect) if you pull a concealed weapon out.

What is your purpose if you don't plan on purchasing a firearm? You can read the laws (Arizona revised statutes) online. If you ever get into a situation where you display your firearm in response to an actual or perceived threat, just know there are no black and white rules or laws that say what you can do. The responding police and then possibly later, attorneys and/or a jury will decide if your actions were appropriate and lawful.

By the way, I fully support concealed carry.
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Old 10-07-2013, 10:34 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by El Lobo View Post
If you are at least 21 years old, a permit to carry concealed in Arizona is no longer required. You can still take the class and even obtain a permit, but it isn't a requirement. By taking the class, you will gain insight into the instructors perspective on use of force, but the bottom line is you better have a fear for your life (or someone else's life you intend to protect) if you pull a concealed weapon out.

What is your purpose if you don't plan on purchasing a firearm? You can read the laws (Arizona revised statutes) online. If you ever get into a situation where you display your firearm in response to an actual or perceived threat, just know there are no black and white rules or laws that say what you can do. The responding police and then possibly later, attorneys and/or a jury will decide if your actions were appropriate and lawful.

By the way, I fully support concealed carry.
I have a 9mm, one of my friends has two young kids and his wife wanted it out of the house, which was perfect for me because I was looking and liked the gun. I just don't see a need to buy any other ones at this stage in my life (not much room, need a safe if I want more). My main reasons for getting the gun were hunting, hiking, and generally being alone outside. I never really wanted a handgun, but my first time hunting near the border was enough to convince me otherwise. And I thought it might be fun to get a HAM tag, would be more challenging than a scoped rifle.

The liability is huge and I'm not trying to walk around town like Rambo. Like you say, you pull it out it better be for a good reason, there will be a lot to answer for.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sido View Post
My other question is about the permit itself. Is it worth getting after taking a class?
There is a "technicality" benefit to the CCW for an AZ resident.

The Federal Gun Free School Zone law (son of actually, the original was tossed, it was brought back to life under yet another abuse of the Commerce Clause) requires that all firearms, handgun or long gun, be transported in a secure, locked container or locked mount when within 1000ft of any K-12 school.
The law provides an exemption to those in possession of a CCW issued by the state.

I put "the" in italics because if I, as a California resident, have a California CCW, that only exempts me from the GFSZ law as written when I am within California. Likewise, if I am in possession of an AZ non-resident permit, I am only exempt in AZ, regardless of the fact that the AZ permit is accepted by some 25 other states.
AZ, Alaska, Vermont, and Wyoming having Constitutional Carry does not provide a legal exemption under the federal law.

I say "technicality" because it is a federal law. I am not aware of anyone who has been charged under it as a sole offense. It is typically used as an add-on charge when an arrest is made for other crimes that may include a federal offense.
We even had a fairly high-profile case in my area where a man was arrested, charged, and convicted under California's own version, 626.9PC, but he was not charged under the federal law.
It is extremely rare for local authorities to charge under federal law for cases where no other crime is involved.


As to the class... I have not taken it, but I know people who have.
It is pretty basic. It is good to have, but if your goal is education, I would recommend continuing beyond the basic class.
There are a lot of good instructors out there, many are retired LEO, most of the good ones are retired military, or both.

But do keep the BS filter active. I imagine it is better in AZ, but in California, some of the worst places to learn about California gun laws are:
Gun shops
Firearms instructors
Cops

When a reference is made to something being illegal, make a note of it. If the section of the PC is not cited, try and look it up later to confirm. Be on the lookout for words like "preferably"... that word is not found in codified law.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:01 PM   #5
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I got a CCW because I got pulled over in a pack of 3 motorcycles and I was trailing slower, and the cop gave me all sorts of shit, whereas my 2 friends had CCW's and even expired insurance and I got the written warning... So to me it seems it's a way to validate you aren't a criminal as long as you declare it immediately.

I took the class because I wanted to understand the laws of using a weapon in this state, but the course was really short and wouldn't recommend it. I took the class in may and got the CCW license in Sept... crap slow delivery..
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sido View Post
I have a 9mm, one of my friends has two young kids and his wife wanted it out of the house, which was perfect for me because I was looking and liked the gun. I just don't see a need to buy any other ones at this stage in my life (not much room, need a safe if I want more). My main reasons for getting the gun were hunting, hiking, and generally being alone outside. I never really wanted a handgun, but my first time hunting near the border was enough to convince me otherwise. And I thought it might be fun to get a HAM tag, would be more challenging than a scoped rifle.

The liability is huge and I'm not trying to walk around town like Rambo. Like you say, you pull it out it better be for a good reason, there will be a lot to answer for.
if you want more challenge get into archery, a 9mm probably doesnt offer enough penetration to take down a decent size pig. Just wounding an animal is cruel, if you cant kill it effectively then dont shoot it.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sido View Post
not much room, need a safe if I want more
You need some kind of safe now, even if it is just a $60 Stack-On or a Document Safe that you pick up from Walmart.

When we are home, our safe is unlocked.
When we are not home, it is locked.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich91710 View Post
You need some kind of safe now, even if it is just a $60 Stack-On or a Document Safe that you pick up from Walmart.

When we are home, our safe is unlocked.
When we are not home, it is locked.
Yea I need to get a safe, will look around for one. Excellent post about the technicality/ constitutional carry and federal law, did not know that.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cytocycle View Post
I got a CCW because I got pulled over in a pack of 3 motorcycles and I was trailing slower, and the cop gave me all sorts of shit, whereas my 2 friends had CCW's and even expired insurance and I got the written warning... So to me it seems it's a way to validate you aren't a criminal as long as you declare it immediately.

I took the class because I wanted to understand the laws of using a weapon in this state, but the course was really short and wouldn't recommend it. I took the class in may and got the CCW license in Sept... crap slow delivery..
What kind of course did you take? Would the 7 hour course have been better?
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t.hornstra View Post
Wait, there's no permit required to conceal carry in AZ?
Nope, just gotta be 21+
AFAIK it's like alaska.
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:01 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by 95 taco View Post
Nope, just gotta be 21+
AFAIK it's like alaska.
And there's one more reason for me to move. I've been lookin at moving there for a while. I loved growin up in CA, but now that I'm on my own, it SUCKS.

Looks like I'll be one step closer!
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:02 AM   #13
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Good luck with moving, our family is moving to MS by the end of next year at the latest, but i may be moving to VA when i turn 18.
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:13 AM   #14
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As an Az resident you can carry exposed on your person or in your car at 18 years age and concealed on your person or in your car at 21; no permits needed. If you reside in a state with the same laws, Az recognizes the same. If you're from a restrictive state then you don't have the rights in Az unless you have a permit from a recognized state.
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonziGT230 View Post
As an Az resident you can carry exposed on your person or in your car at 18 years age and concealed on your person or in your car at 21; no permits needed. If you reside in a state with the same laws, Az recognizes the same. If you're from a restrictive state then you don't have the rights in Az unless you have a permit from a recognized state.
cool, thanks for clarifying.

In MS i could conceal carry in my vehicle, home, or property at 18, not sure on open carry age though.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:17 AM   #16
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The biggest benefit to having your CCW is saving time when purchasing a firearm. The dealer just photocopies your DL and CCW and you're done after filling out the form. Often when ordering a gun in from out of state, dealers will give a discount on the transfer for CCW holders since it saves them a phone call to the NICS mumblers.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:30 AM   #17
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As a CCW Permit holder I rairly carry. I would recommend any one who wants to carry Concealed to take the class learn the do's and don't when carrying. I understand the need to carry at times but some suituations are going to get a lot worse if a gun is involved. I am not saying the actual situation will get worse but you as the CCW holder is in greater risk in court.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:49 AM   #18
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I am not saying the actual situation will get worse but you as the CCW holder is in greater risk in court.
How?
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:51 AM   #19
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I took mine from caswells but the guys over at Desert Valley Firearms have a really good one that my neighbor and his wife went to.
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:59 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonziGT230 View Post
As an Az resident you can carry exposed on your person or in your car at 18 years age and concealed on your person or in your car at 21; no permits needed. If you reside in a state with the same laws, Az recognizes the same. If you're from a restrictive state then you don't have the rights in Az unless you have a permit from a recognized state.
Can you quote the statute that prohibits non-residents from carrying concealed without a permit? I could not find it in the Arizona Revised Statutes.
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