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Old 03-17-2011, 06:59 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
Yeah, a quarter of it chunked the fuck out, it broke in two places all the way through. You can lift it right out like a puzzle piece.

The pinion is also fucked to death. ECGS is gonna have some work to do building this thing in a few months...
Are you putting lower gears in?
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:10 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by 05tacoSPORT View Post
Are you putting lower gears in?
They'll be 4.56s, from whatever Chase happens to note is the highest quality manufacturer, and I'm going to have them cryo'd as well.
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Old 03-18-2011, 06:50 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
They'll be 4.56s, from whatever Chase happens to note is the highest quality manufacturer, and I'm going to have them cryo'd as well.
Why not go to regular axle with ARB? I doubt putting 4.56 solves anything really. The only differnece between 4.56 and 3.73 is number of teeth.
But ring is still thin.
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Old 03-18-2011, 06:58 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
Why not go to regular axle with ARB? I doubt putting 4.56 solves anything really. The only differnece between 4.56 and 3.73 is number of teeth.
But ring is still thin.
Not mine. My 4.56 are thick cut and twice as thick as what he broke
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Old 03-18-2011, 07:13 AM   #45
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Well first of all it's not just the fact that it's a 8" elocker rear, to break like that was just a matter of several factors coming together at the same time. It's more than easy enough to blow out the 8.4 rear on these trucks as well. But if he goes to 4.56's but keeps the smaller 3.73 and down carrier then he will have the thick cut gears which will add some beef to it, plus if he has them treated that will help as well.
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Old 03-18-2011, 07:42 AM   #46
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Because the 8" locked guyz ride hard
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:31 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by brutalguyracing View Post
Because the 8" locked guyz ride hard
Precisely. Mainly because every 8" you see is an elocker rear so obviously LOCKER.... I guarantee you I can go out and easily blow my 8.4 with the LOCKER kicked in. It's just plain and simple physics... if you lock and axle and things get bound up something has to give PERIOD. Doesn't matter what kind of axle it is something will give, either you will spin tires, or something will break. Just so happens that in stock form the ring gear is the weak point so that's what gives. This is the exact same principal that I was explaining to you about the front end with a locker as well.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:37 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Lrgrnr View Post
Gottcha.............BTW I don't even think John was locked at the time of breakage.......
seen him say that too
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Old 03-18-2011, 09:27 AM   #49
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Well my guess is that he shock loaded the rear end which can easily cause things to break. Get some tire spin and then suddenly the tires find traction..... bang! Seen it happen many times to many different trucks. No way around that other than being very cautious.
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Old 03-18-2011, 11:22 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05tacoSPORT View Post
Not mine. My 4.56 are thick cut and twice as thick as what he broke
Not that I want to challenge you o n that, but how can you make ring thicker for e=locker ? there is no room for thicker gear. Unless you play with carrier being off center in bearings.
Do you have pics comparing stock 8.4, 8.0 and yours?
I am interested to see how much is thicker.
EDIT: Do you have e-locker or you have 8.4 ?


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Originally Posted by Fire931 View Post
Precisely. Mainly because every 8" you see is an elocker rear so obviously LOCKER.... I guarantee you I can go out and easily blow my 8.4 with the LOCKER kicked in. It's just plain and simple physics... if you lock and axle and things get bound up something has to give PERIOD. Doesn't matter what kind of axle it is something will give, either you will spin tires, or something will break. Just so happens that in stock form the ring gear is the weak point so that's what gives. This is the exact same principal that I was explaining to you about the front end with a locker as well.
By now there are probably as many locked 8.4's then e-lockers. Still odds are not in favor of TRD. Plus a lot of people who broke them were not even locked. My buddy broke his on highway with his truck not even seeing any offroading. (we were going for his first offroad run ) Same thing ring was split to million pieces.
Also when I had seen people brake 8.4 gears, they end up shearing teeth rather then splitting the ring. Split ring I had only seen on 2gen TRD OR. That tells me right there that ring simply is too thin to hold up. Thats why it splits instead of shearing its teeth.
You can cryo for sure but doesn't cryoed stuff wear faster? thats why Cryoed birfs are for offroad only
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:42 PM   #51
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Didn't measure but from a bare eye my new gears were beefed up vs my stock. Call ECGS.
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Old 03-18-2011, 02:15 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Lrgrnr View Post
Gottcha.............BTW I don't even think John was locked at the time of breakage.......
This is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire931 View Post
Well my guess is that he shock loaded the rear end which can easily cause things to break. Get some tire spin and then suddenly the tires find traction..... bang! Seen it happen many times to many different trucks. No way around that other than being very cautious.

I *think* this is correct as well.

When we recovered me in reverse, I was running 4Lo with A-TRAC. I gave the truck very light gas in reverse and let the strap do the rest. When it came off the log, one rear tire came down on another smaller log while the other hit dirt.

I think the difference in traction with the wheelspin just goosed the ring gear the wrong way at the wrong time. That's when everyone who was outside the truck said they heard the first noise.

Then it drove fine downhill for a hundred yards, and started acting up severely on the uphill...Im guessing since I was mostly on the brakes downhill, the driveline load was less.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
Why not go to regular axle with ARB? I doubt putting 4.56 solves anything really. The only differnece between 4.56 and 3.73 is number of teeth.
But ring is still thin.

I already have two e-locker 3rd members. I can have them built for less than the cost of purchasing a used 8.4 3rd and ARB setup, meaning for the same money I can have a very strong rear end plus a spare. Plus, the trouble of running the electrical and air wiring for the ARB is eliminated.

Going to 4.56 does a few things:

- First and most importantly you can SWITCH GEAR MANUFACTURERS. This problem is with the Toyota gear manufacturing process, not the design of the gear. A same sized ring gear could be made much stronger by use of a gear made from a stronger alloy.

- Cryo treating helps eliminate weak spots.

- 4.56 ratio means the truck is less sensitive to skinny pedal...more engine revs required to turn the wheels once, so you have an extra "margin of error" if you tap the gas at the wrong time...the wheels will be spinning less, which means less force to shockload the drivetrain if one of them grabs.
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:35 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
Performance review:

This armor is beast. I slammed the sliders hard. I teetered the entire truck on the transfer case skid. At one point, I hit the front skid so hard the horn on the truck honked, like a clown nose.

This stuff laughed at all of it. Unfortunately, I can't say the same about the stock Toyota rear diff, which blew out. Pics and vids below. Just so's we're clear, these pics and vids were all taken by other people...none of them are mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWz6v...layer_embedded









These are my gears, See how thick they are
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:40 PM   #54
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The truck looks great man. I will get armored up one day hopefully.
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:07 PM   #55
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The truck looks great man. I will get armored up one day hopefully.
As John and others know, talk to Kevin at Armor Tech, he'll get you straight!
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Old 03-19-2011, 03:53 AM   #56
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These are my gears, See how thick they are
What gears are those?
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Old 03-19-2011, 04:46 AM   #57
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What gears are those?
Yukon 4.56. 8.4"
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Old 03-19-2011, 11:46 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05tacoSPORT View Post
These are my gears, See how thick they are
Ok but those are 8.4 I misunderstood you then I though you had 8 gears that were thick.
Yeah 8.4 is thicker by a lot. I know people running 37-39 inch tires with those and not breaking them, despite wheeling the heck out of them on boulders.
Thats why I dont think going to 4.56 even cryoed will make that much of the difference.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post

I already have two e-locker 3rd members. I can have them built for less than the cost of purchasing a used 8.4 3rd and ARB setup, meaning for the same money I can have a very strong rear end plus a spare. Plus, the trouble of running the electrical and air wiring for the ARB is eliminated.

Going to 4.56 does a few things:

- First and most importantly you can SWITCH GEAR MANUFACTURERS. This problem is with the Toyota gear manufacturing process, not the design of the gear. A same sized ring gear could be made much stronger by use of a gear made from a stronger alloy.

- Cryo treating helps eliminate weak spots.

- 4.56 ratio means the truck is less sensitive to skinny pedal...more engine revs required to turn the wheels once, so you have an extra "margin of error" if you tap the gas at the wrong time...the wheels will be spinning less, which means less force to shockload the drivetrain if one of them grabs.
Having lower ratio (higher gear number) is definetely better for control and even if you cryoed them I still think you are pushing luck. Its heavy truck its small ring something has to go.
I know 8.4 are used on much heavier trucks and bigger tires and they rarely break. More often you snap axle. However, they break when they get loose enough and pinion preload gets screwed up.
I know you have now spare one but swapping diff on the trail is not fun thing to do. plus are you gonna drag third member with you everywhere?
I am just saying that if you planning to wheel you probably better off swapping axle.

BTW: How about mods moving that part of discussion to 2gen section.
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Old 03-19-2011, 10:11 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
I know 8.4 are used on much heavier trucks and bigger tires and they rarely break. More often you snap axle. However, they break when they get loose enough and pinion preload gets screwed up.
The issue is the Toyota gears, not the size. I've been talking a lot over the past couple days with the guys at ECGS. They've seen a LOT of blown stock Taco rear-ends, have replaced them with Nitro gears in a number of ratios, and have seen almost no failures with the aftermarket gears.

The problem is not in the gear size - it's that Toyota's supplier is building shitty gears for the 8 inch third.

Quote:
I know you have now spare one but swapping diff on the trail is not fun thing to do.
Shit, really?

Quote:
plus are you gonna drag third member with you everywhere?
On the trails? Yes.

Quote:
I am just saying that if you planning to wheel you probably better off swapping axle.
What is this "planning to"? I'm already wheeling. More than I should.

And swapping axles makes no sense at all. I have a perfectly functional locker, and can build a diff with gears that won't break for about $600...with the same cost for the front end, if I want to regear, which I do.

Spare built diff for the same price a third time.

Compare that to whatever the cost of the axle is, plus paying to purchase an ARB and the associated hardware, plus paying to purchase the regear, plus the personal time to install all that shit.

Swapping axles is going to cost more and be more of a pain in the ass. Period.
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