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Thundering Bass - is it possible in a Taco?

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Old 03-27-2013, 04:16 PM   #1
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Thundering Bass - is it possible in a Taco?

Finished the audio upgrade in my DCSB. I'm very happy with the sound quality - it's outstanding, which was my main goal. But no Thundering Bass.

Here is the equipment list:
Pioneer 4400bh
Boston Pro60SE components (front)
Boston SR65 (rear)
PDX-V9 5 channel amp
Image Dynamics ID10DV4.3 sub
Super Crew Sound sub box behind left rear passenger seat, stuffed with polyfill
RAAMAT and Ensolite on rear panel and doors

It sounds great - crystal clear, rich, nuanced, even way above comfortable listening levels. But the bass doesn't thump as hard as I want. I have a lower quality (and lower power) system in my Vette convertible and when I crank it I can feel my sack (and everything else) vibrate like I'm on one of those vibrating beds in a cheap motel. Me like.

So what's the problem? Need a different sub? 2 subs? Change the subs crossover settings? More power? Ported box? A composite body like the Vette?
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:27 PM   #2
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You are limited to what you can throw behind the rear seats.. For the most bass, JL might be what a good call.. Or build a ported box..

How much polyfill did you use? You can really kill your subs output by adding too much polyfill.

Would love to check out your audio build sometime.. I'm also in Chandler and I deal a lot with audio.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:15 PM   #3
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I didn't measure the polyfill. Maybe should have. It sounded much better after the fill, in fact I was thinking maybe I should add more. Never considered less.

I checked your build. Nice. You've been busy. So what sub/box did you end up with? Happy with your setup?

Would be great to check out each others builds. I'm a huge fan of Santan Brewery.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:22 PM   #4
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Did you have polyfill in the vette? I changed from a sealed to a ported and noticed way louder thump from the same sub....
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:36 PM   #5
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Polyfill in both. They both sounded much better after the fill (both boxes are on the small side).

Good to hear the ported box thumped harder. Might go that direction.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:11 PM   #6
Sounds Gooooood
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What do you have in the vette? Also, the cabin gain (vehicle acoustic transfer function) in a vette is better than in the Tacoma. So a little bit in the vette goes a long way.

My suggestion to you would be to build a ported box for the sub. You'll gain at least 4db of output around 30hz and considerably more throughout the entire range of the sub.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:27 PM   #7
Sounds Gooooood
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Check out the graph on this spec sheet for your sub. I didn't have time to do the models but i suspect it actually models quite a bit flatter than that too so ported is for sure your best bet.

http://www.imagedynamicsusa.net/files/59633288.pdf
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:44 PM   #8
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I have a taco tunes box with a single image dynamics 10. It seems to be plenty loud but just doesn't seem to hit very hard. Looks like there is a little better range in the 30 hertz range when the box is ported.
I was thinking of trading up to a JL sub. Do you think that will make it hit a little harder? Should I try opening a port in the box. Why do they even seal boxes if it doesn't help the sound? All questions I have been wondering for a few months now...
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:52 PM   #9
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A ported box is more than just a hole. It needs to be a specific diameter and a certain length. This "tunes" the box to a specific frequency. Typically, most subs see increased low end and more "punch" with a ported box vs sealed. However, some subs aren't designed to be ported and don't react as well to being a ported enclosure.

However, ported boxes are typically larger than their sealed counterparts. Think about it as free extra output at the cost of extra space.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItalynStylion View Post
What do you have in the vette? Also, the cabin gain (vehicle acoustic transfer function) in a vette is better than in the Tacoma. So a little bit in the vette goes a long way.

My suggestion to you would be to build a ported box for the sub. You'll gain at least 4db of output around 30hz and considerably more throughout the entire range of the sub.
In the Vette I have a 10 inch Alpine Type-S in a slightly larger box. I suspected the cabin gain as you call it is the main difference. The entire car with the composite body reverberates nicely. Also, the car is so small the sub is only a few feet from the passengers.

I don't know much about ported boxes. I've heard that compared to sealed boxes they are "mushy" rather than crisp. The recommendation on the ID specs you provided says they strongly recommend a sealed box for most users. Any reason why? Also, when I was looking for a box I didn't see any ported available. If anyone can provide a link I'd appreciate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDJY View Post
I have a taco tunes box with a single image dynamics 10. It seems to be plenty loud but just doesn't seem to hit very hard. Looks like there is a little better range in the 30 hertz range when the box is ported.
I was thinking of trading up to a JL sub. Do you think that will make it hit a little harder? Should I try opening a port in the box. Why do they even seal boxes if it doesn't help the sound? All questions I have been wondering for a few months now...
You describe the sound exactly as I would - plenty loud but no thunder. That's why I titled the post as I did. Maybe chasing the feel I get in the Vette is a pipe dream in the Taco.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:22 AM   #11
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bass deflection can be achieved in a small ported box...
there a video on youtube of a guy with his own design ported box holding a single 8 inch woofer and two people thought he was running dual 15 inch...
the box in the video was roughly the size of a shoe box... like it was said above its about finding the proper frequency
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:26 AM   #12
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I have a 8" kicker L7 that i built a ported box for. Since the sub was so small i could make a very big box withing specs. I didn't take any fancy design for the box either. The box is not tall so it sits rights under that main channel bar, so i didn't have to compensate my box design for it, and the box runs from one side all the way to the other total of 49" long. Im right at .72 cubic feet of air and the box is tuned at 33-35hz. I did have to make a slight channel for the seat bracket before fitting the box, but i compensated for that in the design. It sounds really good, I would say i get the sound of two 10" subs that would be consider good subs for the money.

I have heard good things about the JL 13.5, but i have only seen them in sealed small boxes in the tacoma's. The amount of space we have back there really hurts the quality of sound without a decent size box. You could have the best sub, but if its not in the right box its worthless.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Snow View Post
I didn't measure the polyfill. Maybe should have. It sounded much better after the fill, in fact I was thinking maybe I should add more. Never considered less.

I checked your build. Nice. You've been busy. So what sub/box did you end up with? Happy with your setup?

Would be great to check out each others builds. I'm a huge fan of Santan Brewery.
I went with the alpine type-r 12 shallow, built the box myself with 3/4mdf at .60ft or airspace.. The sub suggests .60ft sealed, found an old box that was 1.0ft sealed and the sub sounded a lot better. I just went for it when I built the box and didn't measure much, was more trying to see if I can make it fit and keep the plastics on and fold the seats up/down. Turned out good but I'm in the stages of designing a newer box that should (if my math is right) be around .80-.85ft sealed. I use polyfill as well in my box.

I'm extremely happy with my setup, but like you I want more bass.. I come from hatchbacks and competing in SPL so having just a single sub, with low power (600watts) is just weird to me. But I've never had a SQ build and I'm really digging mine so far. I really like the Type-R 12 as I got a SMOKING deal on it, can't find it for that price at all anymore otherwise I'd have 2 of them installed.

My wife suggested I build a box for my HCCA15 that somehow mounts to the seats when folded down. Haven't found a good solution yet but that's my next step, getting some SPL back into my life

Lets grab a beer at santan sometime next week and check out the systems!
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Old 03-30-2013, 09:57 PM   #14
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Building and tuning a ported box sounds like a major PITA. I'm good at math and DIY projects, but really don't want to be bothered by all that when all I want to do is hear quality music. If I could buy an off the shelf solution I'm in.

Has anybody built a system that includes a tactile transducer (bass shaker) like an Aura or Buttkicker mounted on the front seat frames? If they actually work they could be the perfect addition to a good SQ system that already has a subwoofer that's loud, but lacks the low end rumble. Must admit though it sounds like a gimmick, and you don't hear many transducer evangelists out there.

Aw9d - definitely in on the Santan beer, but this week sucks. Maybe the week after.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:59 AM   #15
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My IDQ subs don't hit that hard because they only have 500 watts and are sq subs, not spl subs. JL 10" subs are smaller mounting diameter and will require a new box or some sort of adapter to fit.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Snow View Post
Building and tuning a ported box sounds like a major PITA. I'm good at math and DIY projects, but really don't want to be bothered by all that when all I want to do is hear quality music. If I could buy an off the shelf solution I'm in.

Has anybody built a system that includes a tactile transducer (bass shaker) like an Aura or Buttkicker mounted on the front seat frames? If they actually work they could be the perfect addition to a good SQ system that already has a subwoofer that's loud, but lacks the low end rumble. Must admit though it sounds like a gimmick, and you don't hear many transducer evangelists out there.

Aw9d - definitely in on the Santan beer, but this week sucks. Maybe the week after.
Cool man just PM me when you want to meet up a few days in advance.

As for the box, they make software that will figure all that info out for you that is pretty basic and straight forward.. I had drawings of a ported box that took up everything tuned to 37hz (basically same thing as tacotunes box for the ID 12). If I still have them I'll scan it and send it to you.

You can also buy the box from Tacotunes w/out the sub, but they want 599 for it. Or ask Mr. Marv on here to build you a custom one.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:30 PM   #17
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It's not that hard. I drew up a design and measured out everything, including the space and port. I did everything myself and it wasnt too bad honestly
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:46 PM   #18
Bass Bass Bass Bass Bass Bass
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Anything is possible!! This is my brothers single cab, he put two 12 inch Memphis Mojo's behind the seat. He built a custom box ported through the center console. Those subs are no where near shallow at all. When the bass hits in this truck it makes it hard to breathe and you can barely read the license plate of the car in front of you. The mirrors of the cars around you at stop light are rattling. And sorry if this is kind of irrelevant but its just pretty amazing for such a small truck.





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Old 04-02-2013, 03:59 PM   #19
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That is freakin' awesome! Do you know what kind of amps he is running and their wattage, and how much power the subs can handle? Im running a type R on a 250w rms amp right now (the sub is rated for 1000w rms, 3000w peak) and I just don't think its doing the sub justice...
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:23 PM   #20
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Well that's damn impressive! Obviously thunder IS possible in a Taco. I'd be happy stopping far short of his build.
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