Component vs. non component front speakers!

Dang, I don't think GoBlueFan cares to further his point. I will say that his opinion is widely held, but from what I have seen, experience and studied, it does not hold true in real life. I would hope that someone else would chime in to explain his side more as I think this is a good topic to discuss.

 

See Mr Marv 's (very good) answer to this question,
'Q: Will I blow my speakers if I "under" power them?', in the following link.

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/audio-video/6856-general-car-audio-faqs.html

 

This is my point. I just want to understand GoBlueFan's belief. Maybe he thinks the same way, just not wording it in a manner that I understand it.

I'd prefer a discussion on this views, so that people can understand what really happens in electronics. It really isn't a mystery when you understand the components and some basic physics behind it all.

 

I agree Sooner. In the link I posted there is some very good discussion on the subject later on as well.

This is all that needs to be said (and supports your claims....)

"The only thing that thermally damages speakers is (too much) power."

 

I'm soaking this up, both of you.
Sooner, what do you mean by hooking up a 9v battery to a speaker (wire)?

 

If a speaker's voice coil isn't labeled (or even if they are and you just want to check); you can connect a battery to the leads. + from the battery to + of the speaker and - to - should result in the cone moving out. The other way around should make it move in.

Now, the signal that a speaker normally plays works the same way. It it makes the cone move in and out. The signal that the amplifier puts out is an A/C current. It changes frequency of the current and that is what makes the cone move in an out and produce sound.

Back to the 9V battery. It produces a DC current. What some people claim happens, when you push an amplifier too hard, is that it produces a square wave. This part I don't have an argument against. It is true, when an amplifier starts to clip, it is cutting off the full range of the curve that the AC current has. The top and bottom of the wave are cut off and form a squared off top and bottom, thus the terms clipping and square waves. Some claim that this clipped signal damages a speaker's voice coil because it is DC current and that the cone extends, stops, then draws back in. The pause, they claim, will cause the speaker to be damaged. I contend that as long as the amplifier is putting out a wattage that is below what the speaker can handle, everything will be fine. The 9V battery puts out the upper crest of a square wave. There is no variation in its signal, this is what they say is bad when an amplifier is clipping the signal. Yet the speakers can handle a 9V battery hooked up to them all day long. This is because the voice coil can dissipate the heat that is created by the current that the battery provides.

Is that rambling enough? If you have any questions or would like a further clarified version of the above, just ask. I'm getting sleepy, so it might not have come out quite as clear as I was hoping.

 

To add to the discussion....having not enough power will ''blow'' a speaker just as easy as having too much. Its a fact, i've seen it happen more with Subwoofers than door speakers.

Source: 1 1/2 years of selling and installing at an Audio Shop.

 

Please, enlighten me with your 18 months of car audio sales; how does not enough power "blow" a speaker?

The voice coil design is nearly identical in composition in a 15" sub as it is in a 6.5" mid range. They are both coiles of thin copper wire in an epoxy binder. Both are set inside the field of a permanent magnet. Energy is conducted through the VC, where heat is produced along with a magnetic field. The heat produced is proportional to the copper, the length of the wire, diameter of the wire, and most importantly, the amount of current. The type of signal has nothing to do with it. The frequency of the signal has nothing to do with it. At least not at the scale that we are dealing with in car audio.

So, what is it, in your experience that causes an underpowered speaker to "blow". And what is your definition of "blow" when you are talking about speakers?

 

Let's move discussion on clipping to this thread instead of ruining this one.

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/audio-video/43104-clipping-underpowering-explained.html#post731460

 

I'm just curious... What does all this talk about clipping, crossover loss, etc... have to do with the subject title of this thread? I certainly didn't see much talk about that topic.

As for crossover loss, it's true that a passive crossover (used on the amplifiers output) will utilize a small (very small) amount of power. This is what inductors and capacitors will do.

The clipping debate as to damaging speakers... Well there are a lot of factors involved, from the preamp stage, amp stage, or power handling of the speaker.

First you need to identify where the clipping is happening. Is it the output stage of the AMP or the preamp section. I believe if the AMP is clipping that it will not damage the speaker because it can only output a certain amount of power, but if the preamp is clipping and the AMP has plenty of power, that could damage the voice coil by forcing enough power into the voice coil as to distort it. (I can't say this paragraph is factual, just what I understand)

Speakers should be rated at double the power handling of the AMP as a general rule of thumb. This means in ratings of RMS, not maximum because that rating is for the birds.

So if you have selected the proper speakers for the Amp, you should never need to worry about speaker damage during clipping. And if you hear clipping (distortion), maybe you should turn it down some until it's gone.

As for the 9V DC battery test and why it doesn't melt your speaker, unless you have a good speaker it probably will distort the voice coil after a few minutes of heating up. Remember that a 9V DC battery doesn't have a lot of current. But if not, just hook it up to a 9V DC pack of AA- Cell or better NiCd/NMHi batteries. But those melt it quick enough, even if it's an 8 ohm speaker, and watch your connecting wire, it's bound to get smokin' hot too.

Okay, I've stirred the pot a little and I think it's good as well to discuss this without getting irritated. It should be a learning experience.

Now, can we get a comment on which speakers are better and why, Component or Combined.

-Joe

 

Joe, I don't mean to be a dick but please move your post to the thread that I made discussing the issue of clipping that way we can continue the topic without poisoning this thread.

 

Yea, found that after the fact.