General Car Audio FAQs

[Mr Marv]

One of the members here saw this info that I posted on another forum and asked that I post it here as well. Hopefully it will help some of you in your search for audio nirvana and if you have any questions please feel free to ask!

BTW, after re-reading this tonight I edited some info to hopefully make it easier to understand and in some cases I added to it.

disclaimer: I am not some "Audio Guru", rather just a car audio fanatic that likes to experiment and learn why things are as they are as well as pass on what I have learned! The following is based MOSTLY on my actual experience and knowledge (unless I mention it wasn't in which case I'll provide references )! In some cases it will be my opinion and my opinion may be worth exactly what you paid for it! This in NO way is meant to sound like it is the "Holy Grail" rather just to pass on some info that hopefully helps some of my fellow car audio fanatics get the most out of this hobby. In any case, "I cannot hear what you can hear and you cannot hear what I can hear so your results may vary".

I get a LOT of calls from the great members here and recently a lot of the same questions have been asked pretty often so I thought I'd take a few minutes to post my thoughts/experiences on some of them in one place . BTW, please note that I'm not trying to discourage anyone from calling me for help because I'm always willing to help if I can and I really do answer the phone!


Q: "I kept the factory headunit and replaced my factory speakers but the new ones don't sound much better (or in extreme cases they actually sound worse)

A: A lot of the factory headunits have built in "non defeatable processing" to compensate for the "less than stellar quality" speakers so this can happen."
They can also have "volume dependant" equalization which alters the response to keep from blowing the speakers (typically the bass will be reduced at higher volumes). A device such as the JL Cleansweep will dramatically improve the quality of sound in the situation where you want to keep your factory head unit.


Q: Are aftermarket headunits "better" than factory headunits?

A: Not necessarily. Aftermarket headunits typically will have more features however in some cases the the OEM factory specs will require tolerances that are tighter than those for some aftermarket units (this info is from a friend that is an engineer for Ford).


Q: Do I need to separate my power wire from my speaker wire and interconnects?

A: This is a myth that has been around a long time. I believe it came from cases where people ran the wires together and got induced noise. They would then separate the wires and the noise would go away so they figured it was the wires next to each other that caused the problem. This can be dispelled quite easily if you look at it this way-it takes a positive and negative connection to complete a circuit, correct? The ground wire from your vehicles battery is connected to the chassis/body correct? So if that's the case no matter where you run the speaker wire/interconnects they will always be "on top of the power wire" per se, correct? . This is not to say that there cannot be noise induced with the wires next each other rather that the problem was most likely caused by a bad cable, something electronic the wire was near or what I call a "hot spot" on the vehicle where the wire was and when said wire was moved "away from the power wire" the noise went away.
BTW, I've run all the wires together in the countless number of systems I have installed over the years and have never had a noise problem in any of them.


Q: Is sound deadening my vehicle worth it?

A: IMO yes, but it also depends on what "level" of sound quality you are looking for and what it is worth to you. Personally I am always looking to get the "most" out of my sound system so I go overboard however for some people the "point of diminishing returns" comes before the cost/time of deadening.


Q: What are the "best" speakers out there?

A: There is no "best" for everybody and every application since as I mentioned, I cannot hear what you can hear and you cannot hear what I can hear! Since speakers are what actually make the sound I ALWAYS make them the first priority in my sound system or any system I build. The best bet in finding speakers that work best for you is to listen to them yourself however I know that is not always possible so you'll have to rely on the ears of others/reviews and hope they have similar tastes to yours. And don't forget, a "good" speaker installed properly will sound better than a "great" speaker installed improperly"


Q: Should I use "rear fill"?

A: As with most things, car audio is all about "personal preference". If you like sound "all around you" or are concerned with the rear passengers use rear fill! If you are looking for "competition type" soundstage/imaging I'd say not to use rear fill as it will be more difficult to maintain a coherent front stage. An easy way to find if you like rear fill is to fade your headunit all the way to the front and if you like it like that don't spend any money on the rear! If you do prefer rear fill, the front speakers will still be doing the majority of "the work" (or should be ) so I typically suggest spending the "lions share" on the "best" speakers within your budget for the front and using a pair of mids only in the rear. Also, if you are using the rears for "ambient fill" only (and not 5.1 surround etc) you won't need much power to them. When I install systems with rear fill speaker I usually run them off of the headunit and I typically don't use tweeters as they can "pull" the sound towards the rear (but again, if that's what you like then do it!).


Q: Will I blow my speakers if I "under" power them?

A: Another one of those myths I keep seeing repeated all the time but I believe it is just because some have not actually had this explained before. This one came from people blowing speakers while using amps that were rated less than what the speaker(s) could handle and blaming it on "under" powering. A very simple answer that dispels this myth is "if that were the case, every time you turned the volume down you would blow the speakers"! Let's say you had a speaker rated at 200 watts rms and your amp produced 100 watts rms. When an amp goes into "heavy" clipping it can "theoretically" produce twice its rated power so you could "theoretically" send 200 watts to that speaker when clipping the amp. This will NOT blow the speaker (sans a defective speaker or inaccurate rating) since the speaker is capable of handling that amount of power and it doesn't "know" if that power is from a "clipped" source. Now let's say you have a 200 watt rms speaker and a 150 watt rms amp. Under heavy clipping this amp could "theoretically" produce 300 watts which can blow a speaker rated at 200 watts rms since that is more power than the speaker is rated to handle. In these cases people would state "I blew the speaker because I was under powering it when in fact as you can see by the example they actually overpowered it.

BTW, clipping is murder on tweeters due to the increase in high frequency content (this is what happens during clipping and not that myth you may have heard about "DC current" or the speaker "stopping" due to the wave being cut off etc ) so the above does not apply! (part of this was based on info I received from several audio engineers as well as testing I did on my own after learning about it and if you'd like more detailed info I have it ).


Q: Amp "A" has .05% THD and amp "B" has .0005 THD. Does this mean amp "B" will "sound" better?

A: If you can hear the difference between .05 and .0005 you must be superman! Here's a little test you can take to determine just how much distortion a human is capable of hearing and you may be surprised at how much you can't hear.
http://www.klippel.de/aura/default.html


Q: Why do the same speakers sound "better" when the salesman switches to certain headunits or amps on the soundboard?

A: Have you ever heard the salesman say "this amp is better for bass" or "if you like brighter highs you need this particular headunit" or "this one is better for vocals" etc etc? I have and used to wonder about it until we did some experimenting using numerous mid level/high end headunits/amps at one of my car audio meets some time ago. The major finding was that MANY headunits/amps had "built in processing" even when the EQ was set on flat! The headunits usually had certain frequencies boosted or cut which emphasized or de-emphasized a certain part of the music and some of the amps had similar processing going on (check out the review of the new Rockford amps in Car Audio and Electronics this month and you'll see what I'm talking about). Also, most people equate "increased output" with "increased SQ" so an amp/headunit adjusted to put out a bit more power could easily be perceived as "sounding better". I think it would be extremely difficult to keep all of the headunits and amps on a sound board the same in output/frequency response and even if they could I can't imagine it would be beneficial for the salesperson since then they couldn't say stuff like "this amp/headunit sounds better than that one which is why it costs more" etc (as an electrical engineer friend of mine always says, "if it measures the same it will sound the same". ) BTW, there were several other "variances" in the amps/headunits however one thing we noticed with the "higher end" units we tested was that the channels were more evenly matched and most did not have "EQ curves" built in.


(Continued below due to excessive amount of characters! )

[Mr Marv]

Continued.......

Q: Can I use my steering wheel controls with a device such as the JL Cleansweep?

A: You can still use the cd/tuner controls however you must use an external volume knob because the headunit volume knob is set at a specific position when you run the software that "flattens" the response of the factory headunit and if you change this position at the headunit you can induce the "factory equalization" thereby negating the benefit of flattening the response.


Q: If my amp already has a fuse do I still need a fuse on the power wire near the battery?

A: Yes!!! The fuse at the battery keeps your truck from burning up in case of a short! . General guidelines state you should put the fuse within a foot or so of the battery and in any case it must go before the wire passes through ANY metal (make sure to use a rubber/plastic grommet at that point).


Q: How do I know what size wire and fuse I need?

A: The power wire size is determined by the capacity needed for any equipment connected to it. The fuse size is determined by the capacity of the wire. It is OK to use a fuse smaller than required for the capacity of the wire but it is NEVER OK to use a fuse larger than the capacity of the wire. On the other side, it is OK to use a wire size larger than needed but it is NOT OK to use a wire smaller than required for the determined capacity. Here's a chart to help you determine the correct wire size:
http://www.the12volt.com/info/recwirsz.asp


Q: How long can my ground wire be?

A: The size of the ground wire is determined by the capacity of said wire. As long as the ground wire has at least the same capacity as the positive wire you can run it all the way back to the battery if you want (that's how we do it in boats and other situations where you cannot get a good ground elsewhere ). BTW, this of course is assuming you already have a properly sized positive wire to start with.


Almost forgot, I actually prefer a circuit breaker instead of fuses.


Again this is not meant to sound like the "Holy Grail" (check my disclaimer above ), I'm just passing along some experiences in hopes it will help others since I have been hearing these questions a lot lately. You may or may not agree with my "opinions" on certain things and that's cool however before disputing anything else please ask yourself "Do I have any solid proof to dispute that or am I just "repeating" something I heard/read?" If you do have solid proof please pass it along as I am always willing to learn something new myself!

Lunch time is over and I gotta get back to work but I'll check back later to field any questions/provide references or add more as I think about it.

[PatheticJoe]

Great post and I love your enclosures, some of the best on the market. I felt I had to comment about one of your Q&As. One of my first systems had tremendous alternator whine going through the speakers. I relocated the RCA cable to the other side and problem solved so I'm a firm believer in the "Keep Em Separated" philosophy.

[Mr Marv]

Originally Posted by PatheticJoe

Great post and I love your enclosures, some of the best on the market. I felt I had to comment about one of your Q&As. One of my first systems had tremendous alternator whine going through the speakers. I relocated the RCA cable to the other side and problem solved so I'm a firm believer in the "Keep Em Separated" philosophy.

Thanks!
I can understand how that situation would make you a believer in that philosophy (I used to believe in it as well ) however if you had moved all of the wires (including the power wire) to the other side the noise would have still gone away and maybe you'd have joined me on "the other side" (wow that was weak! )

This is not to say that there cannot be noise induced with the wires next to each other rather that the problem was most likely caused by a bad cable, something electronic the wire was near or what I call a "hot spot" on the vehicle where the wire was and when said wire was moved "away from the power wire" the noise went away.

BTW, I mentioned above that I have never had any noise problems in a vehicle with all of the wires bundled together however that wasn't quite correct. I have had noise however I just moved the entire bundle of wires and the noise went away.

[Mr Marv]

Another one I have been asked quite a lot lately...

Q. Do I really need baffles/adapters to install new speakers or can I just screw them to the metal of the door?

A. The proper baffle is more than just an easy way to mount aftermarket speakers and this goes along with my comment above that "a good" speaker installed properly will sound better than a "great" speaker installed improperly". Since the front speaker is a 6x9 and most replace it with a 6.5" the baffle serves to separate the front speaker wave from the back speaker wave in order to avoid cancellation (you must also seal all large holes in the door frame). It also provides a solid mounting surface which helps keep the "energy" from transferring to the door causing unwanted resonance that will degrade the sound of your new speakers (applying "mass loading" material around the baffle also helps "de-couple" the speaker from the door). BTW, the thin plastic adapters you see available are a convenient way to mount speakers however you will not receive the above benefits as you need a "dense" material baffle if you really want to get the most from your speakers.

[lsocoee]

Marv, this is great! Thanks for contributing this.

[bajaracer]

what can i do to add to improve the sound while keeping the factory stereo. I have a Double cab with very limited space behind the back seat.
Thank you

[Mr Marv]

Originally Posted by lsocoee

Marv, this is great! Thanks for contributing this.

Thanks and you're welcome!

Several guys suggested I post the following from another thread concerning choosing speakers so here it is with a couple of edits!

Originally Posted by Chickenmunga

Arghgh, nothing against you Marv, this is in response to the general situation:

I can go to one shop to listen to a certain sub and it will sound like pure crap, and then go to another store where it will sound like the best thing in the world. I can ask on forums, and have to wade through the, "oh man this is the bomb" to the, "I'm a self-proclaimed expert because I've had one success story", to finally finding who knows what. I've tried to compare numbers, but from my understanding, it's still a crap shoot because the numbers are massaged (sorta like the MPG ratings on cars).
There's stuff where the price is inflated massively, and others where the numbers are spot on.

I've been disillusioned so many times by the smoke and mirrors of the industry that I don't know up from down.

I guess it's good that It's helped me stop making recommendations of my own that I'm not 100% sure of, but I have no idea on how to proceed, or how to let others know 'the path to enlightenment'. :P

Originally Posted by Mr Marv

I know where you are coming from since those kinds of situations are exactly what got me hooked on this crazy hobby! I started out many years ago just looking for a CD player and a pair of speakers for my truck. Every shop I went to would say "we carry such and such brands and they are the "BEST". Well I knew they all couldn't be the best so I turned to the internet. I found a forum and figured these guys must be experts because they have nothing to gain as the shops do. I couldn't have been more wrong as I soon found out that a lot of the people suggesting things did in fact have a vested interest in certain companies and many others were "self proclaimed experts" with no actual experience on the matter!
After wasting literally thousands and thousands of dollars I went on a "mission" to see if I could figure out what the real deal was. The first thing I realized was there is NO such thing as the "best" for every situation! The next thing I realized was that it's not just about what you use rather how you use it is just as important if not more important which became the MOST important lesson I learned in this hobby.

First I must say I believe you have to at least buy "good" equipment if you want it to sound "good" (although price is not always the determining factor in how something will sound it's a pretty good bet that a $39.00 retail subwoofer is gonna sound like a $39.00 subwoofer no matter what you do!). Unfortunately a sound board as you mentioned won't tell the whole story since you have no idea how each one is set-up and in any case a speaker will sound different in a car as well as from car to car. When it comes to the same subwoofer sounding different from shop to shop that is also understandable since you don't know if they were in the same enclosure nor if they were set up the same. (if it sounds good at one shop I'd bet they did it "right" and would disregard how it sounded at the other)

In any case the car is a VERY harsh environment to try and get good sound in. You already have to try and overcome this environment so I ALWAYS make speakers my first priority when designing a system as it's a pain trying to overcome the environment but it's a REAL pain trying to overcome the environment AND a crappy speaker together! There are many "tricks of the trade" with sound boards that can "fool" people unfortunately and although the sound board cannot give you all the answers it should at least be able to help you eliminate the ones you definitely don't like the sound of if you do the following:

1. take a CD of your own with familiar music and listen to the SAME songs with each set of speakers
2. make sure the salesperson uses the SAME headunit and amp for each set of speakers.
3. ask the salesperson to turn off ALL processing/EQ etc in the headunit and amp except the proper crossover point
4. make sure there is NOT a subwoofer or other speakers playing so you can hear JUST the speakers you want to hear

Once you eliminate the ones you definitely don't like go back around and only listen to the ones you didn't eliminate and choose one from those based on the sound difference you prefer (brighter/softer tweeter, smoother or more pronounced midrange, stronger bass output etc) your budget, brand preference, knowledge of reliability etc. There is no "foolproof" method for this but if you spend too much time trying to find the "perfect" speaker (which does NOT exist BTW ) you are just going to driver yourself nuts!

If listening to speakers yourself is not possible you will have to rely on the ears of others and hopefully their tastes are similar to yours. Unfortunately as mentioned you never know who to listen to but if you see consistent similar comments made about a certain speaker you are considering that should at least give you a better idea of how they "may" sound compared to another.

Also, the "numbers" can be quite confusing as well since most don't truly understand what they actually tell you. On top of that there is NO "standardized" method for arriving at those numbers making it difficult to compare one speaker to another (based on the numbers) even if you do understand them!

Next thing is INSTALLATION INSTALLATION INSTALLATION!! You cannot just "stick a speaker in the door" and expect it to sound good (this is where my earlier comment comes in stating "A good speaker installed properly will sound better than a great speaker installed improperly"). Installing a speaker "properly" includes finding the "best" location, sound deadening, taming and/or utilizing reflections, using the PROPER baffle (a thin piece of plastic is NOT a proper baffle), sealing the back wave from the front wave, setting the correct acoustic polarity/phase, proper crossover point/slope, level setting and last but not least EQ tuning.

Same goes for a subwoofer, you cannot just plop it into any old generic enclosure and expect it to sound great! The correct amount of airspace is needed to ensure proper "damping" and then you still need to have the proper crossover point/slope, level setting, phase and EQ in order for the sub to integrate smoothly with the front speakers (that's for a sealed enclosure and ported requires even more work). Also, the position of the subwoofer and midbass plays a significant role in how it will sound.

BTW, some know I sell many different lines of car audio equipment however anybody that knows me or has dealt with me knows I do NOT push things on people just to sell it to them. If I don't sell what I believe will work best for them I would rather send them somewhere else reputable that has what I believe is a better choice for their situation. Unfortunately not all shops do things this way and a lot of salespeople are on commission so if they don't sell you something they don't get paid. This can lead to them "fudging" things a bit (not saying they all do this of course ) thereby making this process even more difficult than it already is. Also, I have this habit of buying/trying stuff to see if it lives up to the press reports IMO so I generally speak from my personal experience rather than "repeating" stuff I have heard on the internet/elsewhere. In any case it's all about personal preference and as I sometimes say..

"I cannot hear what you can hear and you cannot hear what I can hear so our results may differ!"

[SUPENATE]

heres a dilema of mine have a single dick player and purchased a 6 cd model jbl upgrade but the wiring is not compat. only 1 of the 4 harnesses working is there possibly a harness kit that would convert these others. Thanks for any and all suggestions

[Mr Marv]

Originally Posted by SUPENATE

heres a dilema of mine have a single dick player and purchased a 6 cd model jbl upgrade but the wiring is not compat. only 1 of the 4 harnesses working is there possibly a harness kit that would convert these others. Thanks for any and all suggestions

I'm not familiar with that however if you start a new thread maybe someone can help you out!