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-   -   Compared ported subwoofer vs. my sealed subwoofer box (http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/audio-video/65311-compared-ported-subwoofer-vs-my-sealed-subwoofer-box.html)

netman1969 12-15-2009 11:08 AM

Compared ported subwoofer vs. my sealed subwoofer box
 
I had a chance to check out TacoTunes new ported box in person this weekend (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP7T31GkS8E) and thought I would take the opportunity to review it and compare it to my sealed system.

First of all, system aside, Shane's truck is awesome. Shane, if you see this post, much respect for the work you have done on it. My truck looked downright tiny sitting next to it. Loved the train horn... that pair of underwear will never been the same.

Shane has the new ported box with a single Image Dynamics IDQ12v3 sub running off an Alpine PDX 1.600 mono amp. He is running Image Dynamics components up front and and coax's in the rear, all powered by an Alpine PDX 4.100.

I on the other hand am running a sealed TacoTunes box with a single Image Dynamics IDQ10v3 sub powered by an Alpine PDX 5. I have Focal components up front and coax in the back running off the PDX 5 as well.

Both systems sound fantastic, and what I found comparing them side by side is that it all boils down to WHAT you are listening to.

Shane's system is loud and hits hard, really hard, particularly on the very low base. Since Shane primarily listens to Hip Hop, thats perfect and Hip Hop sounds just the way it should on his system. However, throw on some Metallica or anything that has very fast bass transitions and it starts to show it's flaws. That ported 12 simply cannot keep up with extremely fast bass hits, it all starts to get muddy. Not what us metal heads are typically looking for.

My system is plenty loud as well, more than most people would use on thier daily commute. My sealed IDQ10 can handle even the fastest feet pounding on a set of double bass drums, the IDQ has an amazing recovery time from one bass hit to the next. However, if you are looking for big deep rumbling bass in Hip Hop, that's where my system shows it's weakness. It just cannot move enough air to make those deep lows rumble like they should.

So, in a nutshell, both TacoTunes boxes and ID Subs are excellent. If you are looking for a system and trying to decide between the two, consider the music you are listening to. In two identical Taco Sport Double Cabs the two different boxes definitely stand apart. If you are a Rap/Hip Hop guy, definitely do the ported box with the 12. If you are a Rock guy, stick with the sealed 10.

I anyone wants input on the Alpine amps, Focal or ID speakers, etc.. I have had the pleasure of experiencing both so please just ask. Keep in mind, this is all subjective.

Its_Taco_Time 12-15-2009 11:11 AM

I have never seen a mall crawler as nice as that. In fact, I think there is a thread all about Shane's mall crawler! :eek:

EDIT: Shane's awesomeness aside, thanks for the writeup!

netman1969 12-15-2009 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Its_Taco_Time (Post 1217940)
I have never seen a mall crawler as nice as that. In fact, I think there is a thread all about Shane's mall crawler! :eek:

EDIT: Shane's awesomeness aside, thanks for the writeup!

It is definitely nice, very well done and well taken care of. Maybe he will get the itch for a 2010 and I can buy this one... why have one when you can have two? :)

ItalynStylion 12-15-2009 07:34 PM

A properly tuned ported box can be every bit as accurate as a sealed box. The key is in the design. When you tune a ported box to a specific frequency you are basically giving the speaker a helping hand at and around that specific frequency.

For example; here is what I'm working on for my truck at the moment. I'm going to use four Tang Band 6.5" subs in that little bin under the rear seats in my double cab. I'd like to make the box a little larger 33liters but the bin size can't be changed so I'll have to optimize from there.

33 liters is pretty much perfect for the subs in a sealed enclosure. I had them in a very similar enclosure in my IS300 and they were just beautiful. However, my never being satisfied with "almost perfect" keeps me moving. Porting these will actually yield better results. I'll get bass extension with good impact MUCH lower than a sealed box. Plus, when a speaker reaches Xmax (mechanical limits/moving too far) it will bottom out and or become unstable. Check the xmax graph on the ported enclosure graph; it's VERY controlled down low where it should be. This should yield substantially better sound quality.

SEALED BOX
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...ealedTangs.jpg


Ported Box
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...ortedTangs.jpg

tacomarock 12-15-2009 08:30 PM

I think I have to agree with netman
 
Here are a number of articles that are saying the same thing.

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/support_pages.php?page_id=147
Read Transient Response

http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/S...ubwoofer_Boxes

http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t28

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_a_seale...better_and_why

I read all these when trying to decide on sealed or ported. I am not a heavy metal guy so I opted for the ported.

Tony D 12-15-2009 11:18 PM

One thing alot of guys forget about ported is that their power handeling below the tuning frequency goes way down. Basically there is no suspesion system to support the woofer below what the port is tuned to. What you want to do to help the woofer system out in this case is use a subsonic filter in the amp or before the amp. It is basically a high-pass x-over for the sub - to get rid of the low low bass that the ported system is not really good at playing.

So let's say the box is tuned to 35 hz - all is good from 35-100hz (or whatever on the top end). You want to set your subsonic to start cutting off just below or above the tuning frequency (tune by ear is best).

The added bonus of the subsonic, is because the amp no longer sees the low bass, it does not try to reproduce it, which saves a ton on current draw and reduces the load on the power supply in the amp, so you get a SQ bump and efficiency bump here too.

Hope that makes sense..

If your amp doesn't have a sub-sonic filter in it, most of the Audio-Control pieces do, so put in a epi-center, or eq, or even a x-over.

netman1969 12-16-2009 06:47 AM

OK... hang on a sec....
 
Guys, I didn't say that a ported box cannot be responsive. I had a ported box in my Eclipse with 2 Orion 10's that was extremely loud, responsive AND hit very low. My comparison is specifically addressing the TacoTunes new ported box vs. their sealed box.

Don't mistake this review as me categorizing ported boxes in general as Hip Hop only boxes.

ItalynStylion 12-16-2009 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony D (Post 1220360)
One thing alot of guys forget about ported is that their power handeling below the tuning frequency goes way down. Basically there is no suspesion system to support the woofer below what the port is tuned to. What you want to do to help the woofer system out in this case is use a subsonic filter in the amp or before the amp. It is basically a high-pass x-over for the sub - to get rid of the low low bass that the ported system is not really good at playing.

So let's say the box is tuned to 35 hz - all is good from 35-100hz (or whatever on the top end). You want to set your subsonic to start cutting off just below or above the tuning frequency (tune by ear is best).

The added bonus of the subsonic, is because the amp no longer sees the low bass, it does not try to reproduce it, which saves a ton on current draw and reduces the load on the power supply in the amp, so you get a SQ bump and efficiency bump here too.

Hope that makes sense..

If your amp doesn't have a sub-sonic filter in it, most of the Audio-Control pieces do, so put in a epi-center, or eq, or even a x-over.

Yep, I agree. That's why you need to tune low enough that you don't unload the woofer at frequencies you plan to play! There isn't much content below 30hz anyway (in music) so it's usually around there that most people tune. I tune to what gives me the most ideal FR curve and helps limit xmax in most cases.
Quote:

Originally Posted by netman1969 (Post 1220949)
Guys, I didn't say that a ported box cannot be responsive. I had a ported box in my Eclipse with 2 Orion 10's that was extremely loud, responsive AND hit very low. My comparison is specifically addressing the TacoTunes new ported box vs. their sealed box.

Don't mistake this review as me categorizing ported boxes in general as Hip Hop only boxes.

Oh ok. I gotcha now. I saw the title and my instinct was "ported vs sealed" and I got all riled up lol. Habit from being on too many audio forums I guess :D

netman1969 12-16-2009 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItalynStylion (Post 1221757)
Oh ok. I gotcha now. I saw the title and my instinct was "ported vs sealed" and I got all riled up lol. Habit from being on too many audio forums I guess :D

Well since we are talking about it and you seem very knowledgeable, let me throw a thought at you and get your take.

My box in my eclipse was larger than will fit in the Taco, and I would imagine ported setups perform better with more air space. For the small amount of room behind the taco seats, I thought TacoTunes ported box delivered a lot of "punch" for such small space. Shane's box was also being fed 600 watts, where I am only feeding my sealed box 300 watts. The JL article states the ported box SQ will begin to diminish at higher volumes. I wonder if I should have listened to it at half power to see how it did with the transient response. In other words, if I powered it differently, I wonder if it would have responded differently.

ItalynStylion 12-16-2009 09:09 PM

With things like transient response and dynamics extra headroom with power is a must. As soon as you clip the amp things will start sounding bad.

However, in the case of Shane's truck, I really don't know how big the box, tuning of the box, and settings on the system so it's hard to tell what was going on. There's so many factors it could have been any number of things.

netman1969 12-28-2009 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItalynStylion (Post 1224173)
With things like transient response and dynamics extra headroom with power is a must. As soon as you clip the amp things will start sounding bad.

However, in the case of Shane's truck, I really don't know how big the box, tuning of the box, and settings on the system so it's hard to tell what was going on. There's so many factors it could have been any number of things.

I have been talking with Rob at TacoTunes and he appears to have made some modifications that might meet somewhere in the middle, I am anxious to try it out. This will probably make a lot more sense to a more audio technical person, for me I will just let my ears decide. :)

From Rob....

Dave,

Hey man . . . after your recent feedback - we have been tuning the ported sub boxes. We now have a ported solution for you head banger's ball guys! :-) By adjusting the tuning port a bit along with nearly 2 lbs of fiberglass stuffing in the box, we are now getting great low end extension and MUCH faster transient response.

We will be offering this as an option in our shopping cart for you rockNroll . . . speed metal type. ;-). Since we are getting TONS of GREAT feedback from our newer style music guys with the current sub ported sub box, we are going to leave it as our standard.

During our "info gathering" it appears the "line" is somewhere around the 34 year old mark. Folks younger than 34 prefer the "thick" bass, while folks over 34 like the more "defined" bass. This s is just a "guessitmate".

I will have a test box for you to try out pretty soon. Keep in mind, we will only offer this "option" with he 12" IDQ. We may even drop the 10" Ported IDQ sub boxes all together since most folks seem to want the 12" IDQ getting banged around with 600 watts.

Hit me back when you think we can get this done. We talked about putting this ON your back seat for a few days. Keep in mind it won't sound as good as if we actually installed in behind the seats. The box is tuned with idea that the seats are fullly installed along with some bracing provided by "bolting" the box into the truck.

Happy new year!
Rob

tacomarock 03-09-2010 03:34 PM

tacotunes customer
 
another one.


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