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Old 11-04-2012, 02:00 PM   #21
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Here's some info I posted in another thread on this topic.

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I've been in brief contact with a guy who formerly made these for FJ Cruisers. Because of a combination of limited demand and potential liability, he is NOT selling them any more. He gave me a couple of pics (I don't currently have permission to share; I asked) that make me think that the one pic above that we've been bandying about is his work.

Now, Jerry from BAMF is very busy and doesn't have time to design these from scratch. But I think if we give him a design and perhaps pay a little extra denero up front for some time on the mock up and tooling, he still might be able to come through for us.

So if you think you'd be serious about laying down - say - $250 plus your existing sway bar as a core - post up on that thread in the BAMF forum to let him know you're interested and serious. And that's just a number I pulled straight out of my ass. So don't give him or me any sh*t later if it turns out to be a totally off base number, OK?
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Old 11-23-2012, 07:15 PM   #22
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I did a little more research today.

The "link end" is 5.5" center to center, and both ends are a 12mm bolt.

The link replacement clearly has two "rod ends" and I'm guessing these are M12x1.75 link ends available from McMaster Carr as part number 59935K85 for about 12 bucks apiece. Those have a range-of-motion of 27 degrees, while the factory link ends seem to have a range-of-motion of 35 degrees. I'm guessing that 27 proves to be sufficient. Those things have a capacity of 5800lbs static load - they're probably strong enough.

I'm not sure how the two disconnectable pieces that the rod ends thread into are fabbed up. Clearly they're drilled and tapped so that the rod end can thread into them. Then on one side there's an additional nut on the rod end so that it can be tightened after it's adjusted to exactly the correct length and angle orientation.

It's not possible to buy steel tubing in any "off the shelf" size where the inside diameter of one is a sufficiently close "interference fit" to the other to fab up that link end.

Finally, the two bolt disconnect bar end itself is interesting. The factory bar has a mild curve to it there. So building a disconnect fitting there has some art to it. Also, there's only an inch - perhaps a little less - from my 285/70R17 tires to the bar at that disconnect point when the wheel's turned to full lock. So unlike in this pic - I think the best attachment bolt option probably has the bolts vertical instead of horizontal and cutting into that limited tire space.

When I started looking at it - I though I'd be able to make some detailed drawings with measurements so that pieces could be cut and formed based on the measurements.

Now I think it's just going to be a matter of cut-bend-recut until a master piece is made right, and then use that to make a jig.

That's not a skill I posses.

Next time I'm up there, I'll give you the extra swaybar I got off of MJ - if you want it as a potential prototype part. But I conclude I don't really have the skillz to go any further with this.
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Old 11-23-2012, 07:47 PM   #23
Well, let's play chess.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjmoose View Post
Finally, the two bolt disconnect bar end itself is interesting. The factory bar has a mild curve to it there. So building a disconnect fitting there has some art to it. Also, there's only an inch - perhaps a little less - from my 285/70R17 tires to the bar at that disconnect point when the wheel's turned to full lock. So unlike in this pic - I think the best attachment bolt option probably has the bolts vertical instead of horizontal and cutting into that limited tire space.

When I started looking at it - I though I'd be able to make some detailed drawings with measurements so that pieces could be cut and formed based on the measurements.

Now I think it's just going to be a matter of cut-bend-recut until a master piece is made right, and then use that to make a jig.

That's not a skill I posses.

Next time I'm up there, I'll give you the extra swaybar I got off of MJ - if you want it as a potential prototype part. But I conclude I don't really have the skillz to go any further with this.
It might be easier to use a pre-made connector that could be welded to two cut ends of the sway bar. Provided an appropriate one could be found (I realize that's the hard part), the rest would be easy. Determine where to cut the bar and weld the ends of the connector in place. A solution like this would be easy for anyone to install at home or take to a local shop, and shipping costs would be much less than shipping an entire bar.

Any ideas about where to find such a connector or how to make one? The cut bar ends could be inserted and welded into simple pockets, with matching plates on the end of each that could be bolted together. I don't know if there's a place along the bar to install something like that, or how difficult it'd be to line up the flanges for bolting.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:20 AM   #24
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And now you guys know as much as I do:
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:22 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
It might be easier to use a pre-made connector that could be welded to two cut ends of the sway bar. Provided an appropriate one could be found (I realize that's the hard part), the rest would be easy. Determine where to cut the bar and weld the ends of the connector in place. A solution like this would be easy for anyone to install at home or take to a local shop, and shipping costs would be much less than shipping an entire bar.

Any ideas about where to find such a connector or how to make one? The cut bar ends could be inserted and welded into simple pockets, with matching plates on the end of each that could be bolted together. I don't know if there's a place along the bar to install something like that, or how difficult it'd be to line up the flanges for bolting.
There's not a lot of space there because of clearance for the tire at full lock. The swaybar is not a round tube where you want to cut it - rather it's flattened.
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Old 11-24-2012, 08:31 AM   #26
Well, let's play chess.
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I see what you're saying, but maybe that attachment technique could still be incorporated in a kit for the conversion. Two ovalized pockets for a DIYer to weld the red, studded flange (shown in the latest photo) to their bar. Do you think there's enough clearance for that? A kit like that would greatly simplify the project, and doesn't seem overly complicated/expensive for a small production run.

Ref. the photo:

Is the entire short section removed via the flange and pin?
Is that a 2nd gen Tacoma stabilizer bar?
Where'd you find that photo?

I still think the key to making this fly commercially would be producing a kit for $150 or less, with the only fabrication required by the end user being cutting their OEM bar and welding the kit ends in place. That's in the same price range as better Jeep disco kits, and installation would be relatively easy for anyone to do (or have done).
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:33 AM   #27
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That's an FJ Cruiser bar made by a guy who no longer makes or sells them.

The entire "red" section is removed - you have to remove two nuts from the bar and the "pin" in the link end.

Try it out, man! I'll be a cheerleader for anyone who can make this work. As far as tire clearance goes - you can measure more easily than I can tell you. But basically with any mod you want to be aware of the need to preserve maximum tire clearance, because TW owners are *always* running oversize tires and *always* running rims with more-than-factory negative offset.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:52 PM   #28
Well, let's play chess.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjmoose View Post
That's an FJ Cruiser bar made by a guy who no longer makes or sells them.

The entire "red" section is removed - you have to remove two nuts from the bar and the "pin" in the link end.

Try it out, man! I'll be a cheerleader for anyone who can make this work. As far as tire clearance goes - you can measure more easily than I can tell you. But basically with any mod you want to be aware of the need to preserve maximum tire clearance, because TW owners are *always* running oversize tires and *always* running rims with more-than-factory negative offset.
I have no desire to sell the things, but I do want one. Once I catch up on a lot of other stuff, I may mess with this. It seems doable once the parts are rounded up, and I'd probably try it with a used bar.

Thanks for the help!
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:47 AM   #30
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Bummer. Idea is squashed.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:50 AM   #31
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Talk with FJ FunJunkie in the Blue Room - He had this on his FJ - more than likely it's off by now but you never know.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:58 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjmoose View Post
Finally, the two bolt disconnect bar end itself is interesting. The factory bar has a mild curve to it there. So building a disconnect fitting there has some art to it. Also, there's only an inch - perhaps a little less - from my 285/70R17 tires to the bar at that disconnect point when the wheel's turned to full lock. So unlike in this pic - I think the best attachment bolt option probably has the bolts vertical instead of horizontal and cutting into that limited tire space.
I think from a structure standpoint, this is a bad idea to have the bolts lined up vertically. The sway bar transfers force on the vertical axis. This would put all the stress on the two bolts and would provide a weak point in the design. In the original design the two sway bay pieces are channeled together to give the sway bar more points to spread the stress load with the primary function of the bolts to simply keep the two pieces together. So you cannot simply take the original design and rotate it 90 degrees and maintain better tire clearance.

It may be possible to maintain the linkage design but move the bolts to the vertical, however I fear that would rob the design of strength and it would give the appearance of a weakened part and therefore scare some folks off.

I would remain with the original design. Tires can be moved away from the sway bar using different back spacing wheel and/or wheel spacers/UCA etc.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:03 AM   #33
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So I've talked this over with my insurance agent and It's not going to happen guys the insurance alone will cost me over $7,000 to $10,000 a year this is considered a vehicle safety device. And with the liabilities involved with sway bars I will not build them without the coverage.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:13 AM   #34
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why not just leave the factory sway bar in place and make quick disconnects for the little bar that connects the sway bar to the spindle? Drill holes in the shaft of the ball joint. Put castle nuts on the end of the ball joints and use cotter pins to ensure that they stay on while daily driving. It would look just like your upper ball joint, except they don't have to be so tight. Then you could easily remove that little bar every time that you go wheeling. Removal and install could be done while you are airing up and down. The only problem is that you have to leave your cab, and reach around a muddy tire.....


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Old 11-29-2012, 09:15 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLIAM ROBERT View Post
why not just leave the factory sway bar in place and make quick disconnects for the little bar that connects the sway bar to the spindle? Drill holes in the shaft of the ball joint. Put castle nuts on the end of the ball joints and use cotter pins to ensure that they stay on while daily driving. It would look just like your upper ball joint, except they don't have to be so tight. Then you could easily remove that little bar every time that you go wheeling. Removal and install could be done while you are airing up and down. The only problem is that you have to leave your cab, and reach around a muddy tire.....


Billy-Bob
The disconnected sway bar will hit the coilover and/or tie-rod.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:21 AM   #36
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^^^^ ah ha. I knew it was too easy.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:55 AM   #37
Well, let's play chess.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLee View Post
So I've talked this over with my insurance agent and It's not going to happen guys the insurance alone will cost me over $7,000 to $10,000 a year this is considered a vehicle safety device. And with the liabilities involved with sway bars I will not build them without the coverage.
Jerry, I really appreciate you taking the time to look into this, and I respect your decision.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:30 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLee View Post
So I've talked this over with my insurance agent and It's not going to happen guys the insurance alone will cost me over $7,000 to $10,000 a year this is considered a vehicle safety device. And with the liabilities involved with sway bars I will not build them without the coverage.
OK - thanks for checking.
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:29 PM   #39
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What about a piston like device?
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:49 PM   #40
Well, let's play chess.
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Originally Posted by rmarqu2 View Post
What about a piston like device?
Funny you should mention that.

I'm guessing you mean something more like a telescoping arrangement, that a pin could lock in place when on road? Something like that could work, but then it's getting expensive again.
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