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Your thoughts on "Flossing" fish (salmon/steelhead )

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Old 07-17-2012, 08:18 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by 707tothe907 View Post
No limit on Sockeyes up there? I heard they were having an incredible run this year
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:21 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by 707tothe907 View Post
I don't like the idea of it being used on Coho or Kings in CA, but "flossing" is a technique I am very familiar with because I just landed 3 sockeye about an hour ago.

A lot of salmon don't really eat once they hit freshwater, organs start compressing and sperm/or eggs start growing, food is no longer a concern for the fish.

It all depends on what species of fish you're after and I'f you have the ability to actually line the fish... Inexperienced people will snag all day long, someone who knows what they're doing can feel the difference of the line being in the mouth.

My Internet is limited but I'll try to upload pictures
I guess its more of a moral thing. BUT you even said it yourself, the fish is not voluntarily taking the bait/lure.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:25 PM   #23
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Snagging is a common technique around here for spoonbill, which have a very limited season. To folks saying it's not moral - that's goofy. To say it's OK to drive a barbed hook through a fish if it's hungry, but it's not OK if the fish is not hungry...come on. I can see the point that it's not ethical because they're technically breaking a law. I have zero problems with folks snagging around here in-season.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:33 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymerhead View Post
Snagging is a common technique around here for spoonbill, which have a very limited season. To folks saying it's not moral - that's goofy. To say it's OK to drive a barbed hook through a fish if it's hungry, but it's not OK if the fish is not hungry...come on. I can see the point that it's not ethical because they're technically breaking a law. I have zero problems with folks snagging around here in-season.
You "used" to be able to snatch for spoonbill here (acually the're paddlefish) until the numbers were decimated. And they won't take any bait, as they are filter feeders.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:35 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymerhead View Post
Snagging is a common technique around here for spoonbill, which have a very limited season. To folks saying it's not moral - that's goofy. To say it's OK to drive a barbed hook through a fish if it's hungry, but it's not OK if the fish is not hungry...come on. I can see the point that it's not ethical because they're technically breaking a law. I have zero problems with folks snagging around here in-season.
Im more trying to figure it out if it SHOULD be against the law in CA. The 'sport' in fishing is trying to get the fish to voluntarily take your presentation/lure/bait. While flossing, the fish doesn't do anything except get hooked involuntarily.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:46 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Jay238 View Post
Im more trying to figure it out if it SHOULD be against the law in CA. The 'sport' in fishing is trying to get the fish to voluntarily take your presentation/lure/bait. While flossing, the fish doesn't do anything except get hooked involuntarily.
Oh, then - no, I don't think it should be illegal. I think you should be able to take them with a sharp stick if you can. As a Biologist by education, the focus in my opinion should be on the number taken/killed, and not in the method. Proper season and harvest management is what avoids T4's experiences with paddlefish, and what keeps the Lake of the Ozarks full of 40" paddlefish and 50 lb catfish.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:48 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Jay238 View Post
I guess its more of a moral thing. BUT you even said it yourself, the fish is not voluntarily taking the bait/lure.
Exactly , snagging in the body or snagging in the gills / mouth , still snagging
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:50 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymerhead View Post
Snagging is a common technique around here for spoonbill, which have a very limited season. To folks saying it's not moral - that's goofy. To say it's OK to drive a barbed hook through a fish if it's hungry, but it's not OK if the fish is not hungry...come on. I can see the point that it's not ethical because they're technically breaking a law. I have zero problems with folks snagging around here in-season.
i doubt many of us care if it's moral. i don't. from that outlook, no form of hunting is. . my take on the OP's question was more so if it was "sporting". and i still say it isn't. im not cracking on anyone that does it, have a ball. but i personally like the strategy and thought that goes in to what i consider real fishing. which, from what ive read in this thread, i don't consider flossing to be.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:52 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Polymerhead View Post
Oh, then - no, I don't think it should be illegal. I think you should be able to take them with a sharp stick if you can. As a Biologist by education, the focus in my opinion should be on the number taken/killed, and not in the method. Proper season and harvest management is what avoids T4's experiences with paddlefish, and what keeps the Lake of the Ozarks full of 40" paddlefish and 50 lb catfish.
I do respect your opinion but this statement sort of frightens me I must say
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:01 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay238 View Post
I do respect your opinion but this statement sort of frightens me I must say
Why? I find it interesting that ambush is the accepted form of hunting, but baiting is commonly villainized, while at the same time ambush fishing is deemed unsporting in this thread, while bait fishing is lauded as sport. It's goofy.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:05 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Polymerhead View Post
Why? I find it interesting that ambush is the accepted form of hunting, but baiting is commonly villainized, while at the same time ambush fishing is deemed unsporting in this thread, while bait fishing is lauded as sport. It's goofy.
I see your point literally on a daily basis. I guess its more of just because you can do something does not mean that you should. BUT such is life and "like sands in an hour glass, these are the days of out lives"
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:06 PM   #33
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My dad is in Alaska doing this right now. We've been using this technique on sockeye for years.
Eric, word is the hot bite was up near Red Bluff...you get in on the action?
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:26 PM   #34
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Eric, word is the hot bite was up near Red Bluff...you get in on the action?
I've been too busy getting all my licensing stuff in order. My buddy went out Monday, he's pretty much an expert at it, but haven't heard a report back
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:31 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymerhead View Post
Oh, then - no, I don't think it should be illegal. I think you should be able to take them with a sharp stick if you can. As a Biologist by education, the focus in my opinion should be on the number taken/killed, and not in the method. Proper season and harvest management is what avoids T4's experiences with paddlefish, and what keeps the Lake of the Ozarks full of 40" paddlefish and 50 lb catfish.
I agree for the most part, however, I think what some/most are missing or forgetting, is the fact that these fish are not being given the chance to spawn, so, there is no way to know how quickly the numbers will plummet, with the fact that only a very small percentage of roe ever reach breeding maturity. Don't get me wrong here, I'm no flipping hippie, I hunt and fish anytime I have the chance, but this just seems like a bad practice to me.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:34 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by t4daddy View Post
I agree for the most part, however, I think what some/most are missing or forgetting, is the fact that these fish are not being given the chance to spawn, so, there is no way to know how quickly the numbers will plummet, with the fact that only a very small percentage of roe ever reach breeding maturity. Don't get me wrong here, I'm no flipping hippie, I hunt and fish anytime I have the chance, but this just seems like a bad practice to me.
In CA 1-2 out of 1500 make it in the wild, with our 8 hatcheries in CA, we can up it to around 4-5 out of 1000. Very small percentile.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:43 PM   #37
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I dont feel my opinion that it is wrong is GOOFY by any means.......The definition of angling/fishing has been stated and think the "voluntary" part speaks for itself.If I went duck/quail hunting with an automatic weapon would it be fair to the duck i had a fully auto weapon and a drum magazine to kill it?......thats why there are shot limits for guns and plugs for guns with too high capacity to make the playing field level. Get caught hunting unfairly and get fined or worse. Even if it takes skill to "snag" or "floss" good its still MANIPULATING the sport of fishing IMO. As goofy as that sounds im sticking to it.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:48 PM   #38
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In CA 1-2 out of 1500 make it in the wild, with our 8 hatcheries in CA, we can up it to around 4-5 out of 1000. Very small percentile.
Exactly, so even in a mock environment, your looking at less than one half of one percent. My point to the tee.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:49 PM   #39
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Just as was said, the fish in his way to spawning grounds will not eat and the only method to take them is flossing. You have to convince the fish and game guy that the fish took you-re hook. If snagged anywhere else you have to let it go. Now, this works only so far up the river. Later on its migratory journey the salmon goes through a lot of changes. The mouth of it gets elongated, the meet takes a white color and is not pink like it was in the ocean. At this point isn't good anymore.
Of course a lot of people still use it, but not those who know.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:57 PM   #40
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Do you guys have a native ( First Nations ) fishery on this salmon run ?
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