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Old 10-09-2013, 07:26 PM   #1
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Any luck dealing with Toyota Canada?

I finally asked to talk to the Service Manager at my local dealership about the driveline vibes in my truck. TOTAL waste of time. Can't they at least PRETEND they care? I've mentioned it to my service advisor a couple of times in the past, and on the phone they say "yeah, we can feel it", but when I get the workorder, it says "everything normal".

I know they don't have a clue how to fix it, but I think I'm going to lose it the next time they say "It's normal". If they said it was "common" it would bother me less, for some reason. Do they really expect us to think this is normal? Will I accomplish anything by talking to Toyota Canada?

Ideally, I'd like to get my truck fixed. But right now I would settle for them just acknowledging the problem. The Service Manager says it is already documented that I have a concern. But when I read the workorder, it says "customer complains of shudder", although the technician writes "everything normal". Is that enough? I would feel better if they would at least confirm in writing that there is a problem.

I cannot explain how amazed I am by the total lack of response from the dealer. I'd like to gather up every Tacoma owner around here and stage a sit-in or something..... clog up some dealerships with our trucks, or something. Make some noise about this BS we are dealing with.

Do you folks think I should pursue this with Toyota Canada? Have any of you had any luck getting heard?

Any insights or suggestions would be sincerely appreciated.
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:39 PM   #2
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Get a pack of smokes cause dealing with toyota canada is going to end in butt hurt... My experiences anyways.
On the side note what on your end have you done to resolve the issue? Tighten ubolts? Shim rear axel? Carrier bearing drop?
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:40 PM   #3
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How many dealers have you gone to? If a good dealer wants to convince you that a certain shudder is "normal", the dealer should at least bring another Tacoma from the lot for you to try.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:49 PM   #4
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Here's a question for the dealer. If it's normal, why did Toyota issue several TSB's for the problem, then suddenly decide to make the most recent one obsolete in the system? It's either a problem or it's not, it's either something to be fixed, or it's not. I guess corporate saw it both ways.

Cognitive dissonance, I suppose. Or just standard bean-counting-ass-covering.
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Old 10-10-2013, 04:26 PM   #5
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Post

Thanks for the responses guys. To answer each of your questions:

I haven't done anything myself - yet. I've read plenty here to try on my own, and I'm not afraid to try. I just wanted to give them the opportunity to show that they care about me as a customer.

The dealer here must be a good one, because he said I could drive his demo, a new 2013, and a new 2014 - they all vibrate. Said it wouldn't prove anything. Probably said something about it being "normal" again, but I couldn't hear it because at that point I was struggling to keep from having a meltdown right there in his office.

I did talk to him about the TSB in the US. Still no offer to try anything.

I don't know. I usually have good luck talking to people in these situations. I'm not an unreasonable guy. I have a lot of patience. But his unwillingness to even consider trying something to help me really threw me for a loop. I actually slid my chair back and almost dropped the "F" bomb. But didn't.

I emailed Toyota Canada this afternoon. Just mentioned that I'd met my Service Manager, and it was waste of time. They replied asking me to provide some details, which I'll do shortly.

They've already lost a sale on a RAV4 from this. After the 2nd visit, and they did nothing to fix my truck, we purchased a 2012 Suzuki Grand Vitara for a steal. Yeah, I knew about Suzuki pulling out of the US, and figured it would happen here too (it did), but it's a great little buggy. It is a real overachiever, and I am continually impressed with it. Except the heated mirrors and 4 wheel discs - that part bugs me, and you all know why, haha.

I'll keep you posted, but I guess we all have an idea where this is going.

Thanks again, for listening to my rant.
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:32 PM   #6
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Ghost848 - you nailed it

Unbelievable. Here's the official response from Toyota. I ended my letter with "where do I go from here?", and they sure told me!


Dear Mr. XXXXX:

Thank you for your recent e-mail.

As you can appreciate, we are unable to provide a diagnosis through the medium of correspondence. We rely on Toyota dealerships to diagnose and repair vehicles on our behalf, and we fully support their advice. If Saint John Toyota has determined the condition is normal, we fully support this conclusion.

Kindly note, Saint John Toyota has zero incentive to decline a warranty repair. Should you feel inclined, you are welcome to seek a second opinion at another Toyota dealership of your choosing.

We apologize for any inconvenience and thank you for taking the time to contact us.

Sincerely,

John XXXX
Customer Interaction Centre
Toyota Canada Inc.




Here is my email to them that prompted the response above:


Hello XXXX. Here are the details to explain my comment to Toyota Canada:

I bought the truck in September 2012, as a demo unit, with around 11,000 kms on it. After a few days I noticed a vibration felt in the seat/floor/steering wheel when accelerating from a stop. The more throttle
I gave, the worse it got. A few weeks later, I noticed another, slighter
vibration while steady cruising at 55-60km/h.

On Nov.29th, I took the truck in for an oil change and mentioned the two issues. Afterward, the service advisor called to say that the technician drove the truck, and confirmed both issues. Since I had replaced the factory tires with another brand a few weeks prior, they speculated that it could be a tire out of balance. However, when I look at the work order, it doesn't actually say that the technician had confirmed any vibrations, it just mentioned the tires. I re-balanced my tires - no change. A few months later, I rotated my tires (as per the manual) and still noticed no change.

On June 5th I was back in for another service. Mentioned the 2 vibrations again, and that I had re-balanced and rotated my tires without any improvement. Advisor called and said they could not duplicate my concerns.
Work order says "normal Tacoma". That's 2 visits, and nothing done to attempt to resolve the issue.

On Oct. 9th, I met with the Service manager, thinking that it is time to get him involved. He told me that what I was experiencing was totally normal. He offered to let me drive his demo, or a new 2013, or a new 2014.
"Normal. They all do it." I asked him, if it is normal, then why are
there several different TSB's (in the United States) for similar issues?
He didn't know. I asked if they would be willing to try "something" to help me, but he declined, saying he can't just throw parts at it, because there's nothing wrong with the truck, it's normal. I explained that this is anything but normal. I explained that 3 days earlier, I was towing a trailer, and when leaving from a stop, on a slight incline, there was enough shuddering to actually rattle the dash. He offered no solution, nor
any suggestion, other than contacting Toyota Canada. I have never worked
so hard to maintain my composure in one of these situations. On the inside, I was completely enraged at his unwillingness to sympathize with me as a customer.

I would like to get confirmation from Toyota Canada that my issue has been documented. In my opinion, every day that I drive my truck, I'm doing potential damage to other components as a result of these vibrations. The Service Manager says it is documented, because I've made it clear that I have a concern. But when I look at my work orders, I see "Customer feels vibration. Truck tests normal, no issue". To me, that's not confirmation that there's a problem. If anything, it confirms just the opposite.


I waited a long time to get one of these trucks. It's my first Toyota.
Where do I go from here?

Sincerely,
Ron
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Old 10-11-2013, 06:01 PM   #7
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You seem pretty butt hurt about this. It's normal..
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:51 PM   #8
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- Did you drive another Taco on the lot?
- Did you get a second opinion like Toyota corporate suggested?
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:50 AM   #9
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I am butt hurt, I guess. Part of the reason I bought this truck is because of the way Toyota stepped up with the whole "frame recall" thing a few years ago. My Chevy buddies had a field day about "Japanese Trucks" being junk. Of course, every one of them had repaired the frames on their S-10's, without the manufacturer helping them....
I expected some co-operation from Toyota, and didn't get any. I am surprised.
Do I still like my truck? Absolutely. That's why I'm asking here about fixing it. Hopefully by Toyota, but it looks like I'm going to have to fix it myself.
I didn't drive any other trucks. If I did, and it was vibration-free, would that help my case? What if it vibrates like crazy? Does that hurt my case?
I haven't talked to any other dealers either. I'll probably ask the members here what should be my next logical step, like, remove the rear drive shaft and take it for a drive. Then go about tightening the u-bolts and shimming the carrier, all that stuff.
I guess I just need to calm down, and absorb some of the ideas on here.
Still love my truck (what else could I buy?), but no love for the manufacturer right now.

Thanks everyone. Please feel free to add to this if you feel.
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Old 10-12-2013, 02:54 PM   #10
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If you drive another truck on the dealer's lot (with the mechanic sitting shotgun) and it is vibration-free, the mechanic will be able to vouch for the abnormal vibration in your truck and start to diagnose it.

If that truck vibrates equally or worse than yours, go to another dealer and try again.

Dealers get paid less for warranty work (a 2-hour job is reimbursed as 1.5 hours, etc.). A dealer whose service bay is over capacity will be more inclined to brush off these touchy-feely complaints. Try another dealer.
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Old 11-06-2013, 07:41 PM   #11
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toyota canada sent me a letter about my vibration on my american reg cab 4x4, they pretty much told me there is nothing wrong and to get lost, not much more politely than that either. however my dealership did make some good efforts to and replaced some items until toyota canada apparently shut the door. they were totally ignorant about it and offered no intelligent responses to my inquiries at all. i still enjoy my truck, more now that it's lifted and beaten up a bit..!
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenLyns View Post
If you drive another truck on the dealer's lot (with the mechanic sitting shotgun) and it is vibration-free, the mechanic will be able to vouch for the abnormal vibration in your truck and start to diagnose it.

If that truck vibrates equally or worse than yours, go to another dealer and try again.

Dealers get paid less for warranty work (a 2-hour job is reimbursed as 1.5 hours, etc.). A dealer whose service bay is over capacity will be more inclined to brush off these touchy-feely complaints. Try another dealer.
I work at a Toyota Dealer and I find its quite the opposite. Warranty does pay less time wise but warranty work/complaints are a very high priority and Toyota training programs are always stressing that fixing things correctly the first time and customer satisfaction is a top priority. Toyota made it where they are by learning from ford, chev, and dodge's mistakes. And they stress that they do not want to make the same ones with poor products and treating customers with disrespect. However, I agree with everyone in this thread when they say that this is unacceptable. I hate to say it but I think that the big concern is the dealer. Toyota Canada has to assume that the techs and service department are well trained and considerate because they are trained by them to be that way.
I own a 2007 double cab short box tacoma that had a pretty serious shake when I bought it. I know people have had success with replacing u-jonts, shimming the rear diff., and adjusting the height of the carrier. My truck has a small lift and it took shimming the carrier bearing to correct the shake. The short box trucks have more troubles with shakes given the short driveshaft/aggressive angle on the u-joints.
I drive quite a few Tacomas every day and some shake worse than mine, others are smooth as glass. Some require a u-joint, and others need more in depth repairs. These trucks are VERY good trucks but driveline shakes are hard to ignore especially when you pay top dollar for a top level vehicle.
My suggestion is to go to another dealer. I am confident that if you were to go to another dealer, ask to speak with the service manager and let him know your whole situation they will be very eager to help. Not only will they be fixing your problem but they will also be showing you, a potentially new customer that they can fix your problem even tho another dealer said you have non.
Thats my 2 cents...
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Old 12-15-2013, 07:22 AM   #13
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Thanks TacoTech

Thanks for responding to this. I know there are good techs out there who are very skilled, with great attitudes. My roadblock seems to be occurring with the Service manager himself, maybe I'm wrong. I'm in no hurry to go back to him for another try.
I wanted to disagree with what you said about Toyota learning from Chev/Dodge/Ford. I was going to say that those 3 actually learned from Toyota (and Honda, and Nissan) about building quality cars and trucks. But then I realized I'm frustrated and my truck isn't fixed - so yeah, just like a Chev/Dodge/Ford owner would feel! Toyota IS learning! (sarcasm)
Everything else you said - I wholeheartedly agree. I do like my truck, even with this one "thorn", but I know it can be fixed. As soon as I get around to installing a small lift, I will tackle the driveline, and post my results. Probably in the spring.
Right now, I need to go shovel the driveway
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Old 12-17-2013, 07:09 PM   #14
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Haha well I guess we will be shoveling again tomorrow too.
Well, if you plan on lifting it your problem could change. Either way, lift it and see how it works. I have a leveling kit with 1 inch blocks on the rear. I shimmed the steady bearing mound down a bit and it corrected my vibration, although I have a u-joint on its final days now so it has returned
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:17 PM   #15
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Try this post it might help, TSB. http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd...n-tsb-out.html Post #2
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:09 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacotech View Post
Haha well I guess we will be shoveling again tomorrow too.
Well, if you plan on lifting it your problem could change. Either way, lift it and see how it works. I have a leveling kit with 1 inch blocks on the rear. I shimmed the steady bearing mound down a bit and it corrected my vibration, although I have a u-joint on its final days now so it has returned
Oddly enough, I had the same issue when I bought my truck, I had a vibration at (roughly) 80km/h, after my truck was lifted (OME 3") and they did an alignment, I could see why I had it. My alignment was so out of wack off the lot, the place that did my lift said my truck would have chewed up my tires in no time. It rides way better now then when I first got it, and the comfort of it feels just as good if not better.
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