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Old 08-01-2011, 09:35 AM   #1
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GM products are such a low quality

So we are on the lookout for next family hauler. Minivan is great but it spends winter in the garage and in winter we have to use two cars when whole family needs to go somewhere.
I tough I found good deal on 2007 Chevy Tahoe or 2008 GMC Denali. Both Used for $27-29k with 50k miles on both.
We go to GMC Denali first and it looks so nice and inside is just very good looking, well I try to open rear hatch ---- no go, rear doors ----no go, battery dead. Turns out its a common problem that once it goes it will kill battery every few months. Plus After engine started thanks to portable battery charger there was weird wine coming from engine. Spark plug replacement - forget it unless somebody chops few wires from pass side that last spark plug by firewall is not coming out.

So we move on to Chevy Tahoe standing next to Denali. Battery works but climate control is running full heat on driver side and full cold on pass side. (common issue) Rotors are warped ( common issue) there is knocking in rear diff (common issue)
WTF
We runned from that GM lot like somebody was chasing us. Horrible quality.


Now I am thinking about Used Nissan Armada they fairly inexpensive, anybody has one ? How you like it? Problems?
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Old 08-01-2011, 01:06 PM   #2
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Sounds like either the individual who owned the vehicle before or the dealership didn't take care of it or repair possible issues. I have a 2009 Tahoe and its one of the nicest vehicles I have owned, and I have had several. I would try and find another one in your area and check it out.

Were these Certified Pre-Owned?
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Old 08-01-2011, 02:40 PM   #3
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When a vehicle only retains 50% of its value after just 2 1/2 to 3 years that should be a warning sign!

I know there are always people who say I have one with xxx miles and it is problem free, but statistically speaking they are nothing the General builds is very reliable.
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Old 08-01-2011, 02:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitz Stang View Post
When a vehicle only retains 50% of its value after just 2 1/2 to 3 years that should be a warning sign!

I know there are always people who say I have one with xxx miles and it is problem free, but statistically speaking they are nothing the General builds is very reliable.

I think you're mistaken. In 2008 the Denali wasn't a $60K vehicle and each of these are higher on mileage than what they should be. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a GM vehicle as long as they're taken care of. For that matter, most vehicles, when taken care of are reliable.
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Old 08-01-2011, 03:15 PM   #5
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I know plenty of people who have Tahoes/Suburbans/Avalanches of all generations and have never really heard of any issues. I think GM's full size truck/SUV's are pretty reliable. Now the '99 Grand Am GT I had is a different story. That thing always had something wrong with it.
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Old 08-01-2011, 03:27 PM   #6
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Word-of-mouth doesn't mean much, actually. Better to look at statistics with a large number of responses. (Remember the survey requests you get after buying the Taco?)

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...crossover-suv/

Note the Yukon's 2-star rating for "Feature and Accessory Dependability".

And yes, the Taco is tops in the mid-size pickup catagory.
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Old 08-01-2011, 03:31 PM   #7
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Depends on what your definition of reliable is. My definition is I buy a vehicle and NEVER have to bring it back for anything (broken clips, DRLs that won't stop burning out, rear diff problems, etc.). This is the reliability that my Hondas have given me in the past and so far my Tacoma is the same way.

Maybe a Denali wasn't $60K in 2008, but it wasn't far from it. As an example, a 2008 Double Cab TRD 4WD Tacoma with 50K miles is worth right under $28K (NADA Retail). This was a $33K truck new...that's 85% of its value retained. Even if the GMC was only a $50K vehicle in 2008 the asking price is 56% of its new value. That is a big difference.

Buy what you want to buy, but based on what the rating groups say about GM quality I would not spend my money on one.
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Old 08-01-2011, 03:32 PM   #8
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That's Government Motors for you...........
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Old 08-01-2011, 03:50 PM   #9
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^Residual value isn't just reliability. New vehicle pricing factors into it, too. GM had trouble moving new vehicles off the lot and for a while was giving $6000 incentives. That will disrupt residual value for the same models bought in previous years sold near full prices.
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Old 08-01-2011, 05:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradw3451 View Post
Sounds like either the individual who owned the vehicle before or the dealership didn't take care of it or repair possible issues. I have a 2009 Tahoe and its one of the nicest vehicles I have owned, and I have had several. I would try and find another one in your area and check it out.

Were these Certified Pre-Owned?
Yes GM certified so I would get 1 and 2 years of factory warranty but I just dont like the idea of used cars having "common issues" I check the boards and reviews and what those 2 trucks had is what most people complain about. Otherwise both are great looking trucks. I liked power of V8 but I think I am cured from US made truck for now.
Quality is just not there.
So my options now are Armada or Sequoia and I will probably end up with another Toyota truck Because there are way too many people complaining about Armadas. I just hate the way dash looks on Sequoia. And I mean I really hate it. Plus there is rust issue with New Toyota vehicles. But out of all thats all the Choices. I need SUV with seating for 7 and some cargo room. Bigger towing capacity is a plus.
Another drawback is Used Sequoias are insanely expensive.
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Old 08-02-2011, 03:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenLyns View Post
Word-of-mouth doesn't mean much, actually. Better to look at statistics with a large number of responses. (Remember the survey requests you get after buying the Taco?)

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...crossover-suv/

Note the Yukon's 2-star rating for "Feature and Accessory Dependability".

And yes, the Taco is tops in the mid-size pickup catagory.

Meh, working in marketing I often see a trend of people not even bothering to respond to surveys, ratings, etc. unless they have problems and want to complain, but disregarding that fact, you're using probably the least concerning attribute to base your rating of those trucks on. Sure 2 stars sounds bad, but just looking at the Tahoe that gets a 3 star in the same category and the vehicles are identical. If you look at the ratings that IMO are the important ones the Yukon gets 5 stars across the board.

You could look at all different ratings to skew a view of a vehicle one way or the other. Tacoma takes tops in that review you pointed out, look at initial quality and the Tacoma doesn't rate all that high among the bunch. Someone could look at that and say well, the Tacoma is lower quality to begin with, but it doesn't get any worse. You can really only take JD Power, Consumer Reports, etc with a grain of salt. If I was just using that full size SUV research as my deciding factor in purchasing the vehicle I'd actually go the other way and say this vehicle seems to rate pretty high it seems like a good buy whereas you're using the same results to discredit it. All up to interpretation, really.
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Old 08-02-2011, 04:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenLyns View Post
Word-of-mouth doesn't mean much, actually. Better to look at statistics with a large number of responses. (Remember the survey requests you get after buying the Taco?)

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...crossover-suv/

Note the Yukon's 2-star rating for "Feature and Accessory Dependability".

And yes, the Taco is tops in the mid-size pickup catagory.

In might be tops in that category but the amount of "features and accessories" in a tacoma pale in comparison to a loaded Tahoe/Yukon.

I personally as others have said would be more concerned with overall and powertrain reliability.
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Old 08-02-2011, 04:31 PM   #13
I'm not 4x4, and have an open diff. So i'm 4x1
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I tried not to post anything here but I just could not resist. If I am correct, and this has happened before on this forum....A guy goes to a GM dealership to find a quality used vehicle and ends up finding nothing worth buying because either the salesperson doesn't know the car they are trying to sell has problems {not good} or the salesperson is knowingly trying to sell a car with problems {really not good}. They leave empty handed, come to this forum to discuss theyre dissapointment only to have Tacoma owners defend the GM name. WTF. I don't own a GM or ever will, not because almost all american vehicles suck {I have 2 close friends that are both senior master certified Ford techs, they have both worked for GM and Dodge and the daily stories are scary}, but I want my car to be worth something once it is paid off. My truck is paid off 6 years later and still worth only $6000 less than when it was new, this is not happening at GM. How come?
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Old 08-02-2011, 04:32 PM   #14
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Meh it's mostly how the individual vehicle is taken care of imo. I have a 2005 Silverado with 150,000+ on it and it doesn't have a problem. (knock on wood). My truck before the taco that I sold down to my sister was a 98 Silverado with 250,000 miles. It's still on the road with 285,000. My dad's 2001 2500HD has 255,000. They'll last if you take care of them.
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Old 08-02-2011, 04:50 PM   #15
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I've worked for GM dealers for the last 21 years. I currently own a Toyota, Honda and a Mazda. In the 3 years I owned my 2004 Silverado, it needed a new water pump, battery, seat belt, right front axle seal, radio, instrument cluster and the transmission was starting to have problems shifting from first to second gear. I traded it with about 35,000 miles on it. My 2008 Tacoma has never been back to the dealer for any repairs, although it is still due to have the pedal recall done.
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Old 08-02-2011, 04:52 PM   #16
I'm not 4x4, and have an open diff. So i'm 4x1
Johns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toy02ota View Post
Meh it's mostly how the individual vehicle is taken care of imo. I have a 2005 Silverado with 150,000+ on it and it doesn't have a problem. (knock on wood). My truck before the taco that I sold down to my sister was a 98 Silverado with 250,000 miles. It's still on the road with 285,000. My dad's 2001 2500HD has 255,000. They'll last if you take care of them.
That's funny, I read your comments and was impressed with you and your family having had such good luck with your GM vehicles, the milage clearly speaks for itself. Then I noticed under your name you still drive a Silverado and not a Tacoma yet your on the Tacoma forums. One can only wonder
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Old 08-02-2011, 05:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johns Taco View Post
That's funny, I read your comments and was impressed with you and your family having had such good luck with your GM vehicles, the milage clearly speaks for itself. Then I noticed under your name you still drive a Silverado and not a Tacoma yet your on the Tacoma forums. One can only wonder
Haha simple explanation. The GM forums are full of douche bags. I just drive the truck. I don't participate in the drinking of the brand kool-aid. I know GM products are more prone to problems long term. And I've had those. Ball joint went out on my old z71 (as did on my toyota ) as did the fuel pump. I drove the toyota for a couple of years until my dad bought it from me to put my sister in it as she's turning 16 (wanted to put her in a reliable small truck ) I just like the atmosphere over here on TW
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Old 08-02-2011, 05:52 PM   #18
I'm not 4x4, and have an open diff. So i'm 4x1
Johns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shedJohns Taco is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
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That's cool, so you had a toyota before? This forum has got to have you wanting another one. No?
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Old 08-02-2011, 05:55 PM   #19
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I think it depends on how the vehicle was treated and what GM product it is My buddy has had 2 06 GTOs and he never had any major problems. Well the first one kinda failed when he rear ended someone but yeah. Lol. Also I guess the GTO and G8 were better because they where Aussie built cars.
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Old 08-02-2011, 06:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johns Taco View Post
That's cool, so you had a toyota before? This forum has got to have you wanting another one. No?
I plan to get an older 1st gen as an offroad rig sometime in the future . Hell I'm not even driving the silverado much since I bought a motorcycle haha
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