Mike "Wuzzy121". Rest in peace, brother

Go Back   Tacoma World Forums > Off-Topic > General Automotive

Notices

How should one deal with brake failure?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-27-2013, 04:12 AM   #1
Member
jonmyrlebailey is on a distinguished road
Joined: Oct 2012, #89817
Location: Sacramento County, CA
Gender: Male
Posts: 39
jonmyrlebailey's Tacoma Gallery
How should one deal with brake failure?

Check out this clip of a classic movie where a truck loses its brakes. Hollywood makes people look so stupid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFNHZ...dO9uiA&index=1
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 04:14 AM   #2
Senior Member
CantSitStill is one of the sharper tools in the shedCantSitStill is one of the sharper tools in the shedCantSitStill is one of the sharper tools in the shedCantSitStill is one of the sharper tools in the shedCantSitStill is one of the sharper tools in the shedCantSitStill is one of the sharper tools in the shedCantSitStill is one of the sharper tools in the shedCantSitStill is one of the sharper tools in the shedCantSitStill is one of the sharper tools in the shedCantSitStill is one of the sharper tools in the shedCantSitStill is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
CantSitStill's Avatar
Name: FTR
Joined: Feb 2012, #73601
Location: CNY
Gender: Dude
Posts: 1,024
CantSitStill's Tacoma Gallery
Emergency brake.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 04:18 AM   #3
Member
jonmyrlebailey is on a distinguished road
Joined: Oct 2012, #89817
Location: Sacramento County, CA
Gender: Male
Posts: 39
jonmyrlebailey's Tacoma Gallery
it is a manual transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by CantSitStill View Post
Emergency brake.
should also be downshifting: also never go down in a gear taller than the one you climbed the hill with
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 05:08 AM   #4
Senior Member
stewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
stewartx's Avatar
Joined: Jan 2012, #70271
Location: Huntsville AL
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,831
stewartx's Tacoma Gallery
Drove trucks for years. The emergency brakes on larger trucks are typically not strong enough to reliably stop a loaded truck. Same with downshifting, or even both combined. Indeed, the emergency brakes may use the exact same air system as the regular driving brakes (both gone). Anyway, this is why long downhill stretches on highways (where the driver cannot just downshift and drive carefully to the bottom of the hill) usually feature runaway truck ramps.

Of course, the brakes on passenger-oriented vehicles (such as the Tacoma) are vastly different (redundancy, cable-operated emergency brakes, etc). As a result, total brake failure (a runaway) in a passenger vehicle is extremely rare.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 11:59 AM   #5
Member
jonmyrlebailey is on a distinguished road
Joined: Oct 2012, #89817
Location: Sacramento County, CA
Gender: Male
Posts: 39
jonmyrlebailey's Tacoma Gallery
the idea is to slow the truck

Quote:
Originally Posted by stewartx View Post
Drove trucks for years. The emergency brakes on larger trucks are typically not strong enough to reliably stop a loaded truck. Same with downshifting, or even both combined. Indeed, the emergency brakes may use the exact same air system as the regular driving brakes (both gone). Anyway, this is why long downhill stretches on highways (where the driver cannot just downshift and drive carefully to the bottom of the hill) usually feature runaway truck ramps.

Of course, the brakes on passenger-oriented vehicles (such as the Tacoma) are vastly different (redundancy, cable-operated emergency brakes, etc). As a result, total brake failure (a runaway) in a passenger vehicle is extremely rare.
to a controllable speed if complete stopping is not possible: the truck in the film was not a semi, but a light-to-medium duty single truck: I don't think that old truck from the 40's or '50s had redundancy brakes but it might have had synchro gearing, unlike OTR trucks, to easily facilitate emergency downshifting: trucks with air brakes should have springs as fail-safes to apply the brakes gradually as air pressure is lost

otherwise, what should a driver do in a brake failure in that kind of vehicle in that situation, assuming there is no vehicle available to get in front of you to catch you?
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 08:54 PM   #6
Senior Member
stewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
stewartx's Avatar
Joined: Jan 2012, #70271
Location: Huntsville AL
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,831
stewartx's Tacoma Gallery
Of course, Hollywood has often shown some truly absurd notions. For example, it's darn near impossible to stop a heavy runaway truck with another vehicle. The second vehicle likely wouldn't have enough extra braking power to really do anything. Remember, the brakes (tires, etc) in that vehicle would have to overcome the weight, speed, and downhill gravity then applying to both vehicles. It'd much more likely just get shoved out of the way, or burn up it's own brakes.

Most trucks today that size (in the video) don't use air brakes. However, years ago, since air brakes were comparatively simple and inexpensive, it wasn't uncommon to see lots of experimentation with the design. There were few safety regulations and what existed was often inadequate. As a result, some of those designs were somewhat ill-advised (even downright stupid). Regardless, you can still see such on similar trucks in third-world countries.

As for what to do in such a scenario (no brakes, downhill stretch, cliffs, etc), not much. If the brakes fail and runaway truck ramps aren't available, the occupants would basically be SOL - unless darn lucky, the odds of avoiding a serious crash would seldom be in their favor.

Years ago (before modern brake designs, etc), drivers on downhill stretches used to monitor air pressure religiously, stopping on the sides of the road occasionally to allow low pressure to build up again, and the brakes to cool. Plenty of goods were delivered around the nation this way, so it was clearly effective enough. Besides, drivers were expendable and trucks & cargo were insured.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 08:57 PM   #7
Not very sporting to fire on an unarmed opponent.
OZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
OZ-T's Avatar
Name: Peter North
Joined: Dec 2009, #27584
Location: British Columbia
Gender: Dude
Posts: 621
OZ-T's Tacoma Gallery
When I was a teen , a dump truck driver lost his brakes on the steep hill that decends down into our villiage , he was on the air horn the whole way down the hill , roared through town and jumped out of the truck and bounced down the road at about 40 mph about 40' from where the truck launched off the Coast Gaurd dock and into the harbour
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 08:59 PM   #8
welcome to the incredibuild
Twistedfreedom is one of the sharper tools in the shedTwistedfreedom is one of the sharper tools in the shedTwistedfreedom is one of the sharper tools in the shedTwistedfreedom is one of the sharper tools in the shedTwistedfreedom is one of the sharper tools in the shedTwistedfreedom is one of the sharper tools in the shedTwistedfreedom is one of the sharper tools in the shedTwistedfreedom is one of the sharper tools in the shedTwistedfreedom is one of the sharper tools in the shedTwistedfreedom is one of the sharper tools in the shedTwistedfreedom is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
Twistedfreedom's Avatar
Name: Adam
Joined: Sep 2011, #63386
Location: Spokane, WA
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,938
Twistedfreedom's Tacoma Gallery
just use the nearest Prius to slow down.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 09:09 PM   #9
Senior Member
logcabinwc is one of the sharper tools in the shedlogcabinwc is one of the sharper tools in the shedlogcabinwc is one of the sharper tools in the shedlogcabinwc is one of the sharper tools in the shedlogcabinwc is one of the sharper tools in the shedlogcabinwc is one of the sharper tools in the shedlogcabinwc is one of the sharper tools in the shedlogcabinwc is one of the sharper tools in the shedlogcabinwc is one of the sharper tools in the shedlogcabinwc is one of the sharper tools in the shedlogcabinwc is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
logcabinwc's Avatar
Name: Micah
Joined: Jan 2012, #71584
Location: Pollock Pines, CA
Gender: Male
Posts: 697
logcabinwc's Tacoma Gallery
used to work at a camp up at tioga pass. Camp suburban lost its brakes once coming down off tioga pass. down shift down shift down shift....
campers in the back never knew!
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 09:15 PM   #10
Senior Member
Rich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
Rich91710's Avatar
Name: Rich
Joined: Feb 2012, #73470
Location: Los Angeles
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,682
Rich91710's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ-T View Post
When I was a teen , a dump truck driver lost his brakes on the steep hill that decends down into our villiage , he was on the air horn the whole way down the hill , roared through town and jumped out of the truck and bounced down the road at about 40 mph about 40' from where the truck launched off the Coast Gaurd dock and into the harbour
Guy in my last department used to work for Union Pacific.
He told me about an engineer who ended up rolling too fast coming down Cajon Pass... at that point, brakes or not, there was no stopping that train.

He still holds the record for the fastest decent from 4000ft, sadly, the cargo didn't make it all the way down, and the engine did derail at the bottom. I don't remember how fast he said it was going when the engine left the tracks.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 11:10 PM   #11
Well, let's play chess.
DoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
DoorDing's Avatar
Joined: Sep 2012, #86445
Posts: 15,180
DoorDing's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich91710 View Post
Guy in my last department used to work for Union Pacific.
He told me about an engineer who ended up rolling too fast coming down Cajon Pass... at that point, brakes or not, there was no stopping that train.

He still holds the record for the fastest decent from 4000ft, sadly, the cargo didn't make it all the way down, and the engine did derail at the bottom. I don't remember how fast he said it was going when the engine left the tracks.
Was that the infamous double disaster? That's a painful lesson in the consequences of not following procedures.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 07:53 PM   #12
Senior Member
Rich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shedRich91710 is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
Rich91710's Avatar
Name: Rich
Joined: Feb 2012, #73470
Location: Los Angeles
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,682
Rich91710's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
Was that the infamous double disaster? That's a painful lesson in the consequences of not following procedures.
He didn't give me any details, and incidents on that grade are not uncommon, that may have been the incident though.

Weight calculations are extremely tight... a trail uses 2hp per TON to haul a load.
Jaiver was heading up one evening and one of his engines blew up... he went from the normal crawl forward to rolling backwards almost immediately... he said it was like hitting a brick wall.

No option but to plant the brakes ASAP and wait for a team of helpers that could get the load restarted.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 08:02 PM   #13
braaap
steve o 77 is one of the sharper tools in the shedsteve o 77 is one of the sharper tools in the shedsteve o 77 is one of the sharper tools in the shedsteve o 77 is one of the sharper tools in the shedsteve o 77 is one of the sharper tools in the shedsteve o 77 is one of the sharper tools in the shedsteve o 77 is one of the sharper tools in the shedsteve o 77 is one of the sharper tools in the shedsteve o 77 is one of the sharper tools in the shedsteve o 77 is one of the sharper tools in the shedsteve o 77 is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
steve o 77's Avatar
Name: Steven
Joined: Nov 2009, #26726
Location: Columbus, OH
Age: 23
Gender: Guy
Posts: 21,962
steve o 77's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twistedfreedom View Post
just use the nearest Prius to slow down.
that's like hitting a paper bag that smells like tofu and self importance, not gonna do much.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 10:47 PM   #14
Senior Member
stewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
stewartx's Avatar
Joined: Jan 2012, #70271
Location: Huntsville AL
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,831
stewartx's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twistedfreedom View Post
just use the nearest Prius to slow down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve o 77 View Post
that's like hitting a paper bag that smells like tofu and self importance, not gonna do much.
Hey, it may not do much to stop a runaway truck, but any excuse to hit a Prius (or similar - I don't discriminate when it comes to wimpy cars) has at least some merit.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 10:54 PM   #16
THE OLD TACO721 with a new name.
TnRedNeck721 is one of the sharper tools in the shedTnRedNeck721 is one of the sharper tools in the shedTnRedNeck721 is one of the sharper tools in the shedTnRedNeck721 is one of the sharper tools in the shedTnRedNeck721 is one of the sharper tools in the shedTnRedNeck721 is one of the sharper tools in the shedTnRedNeck721 is one of the sharper tools in the shedTnRedNeck721 is one of the sharper tools in the shedTnRedNeck721 is one of the sharper tools in the shedTnRedNeck721 is one of the sharper tools in the shedTnRedNeck721 is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
TnRedNeck721's Avatar
Name: Zach
Joined: Mar 2011, #52731
Location: TN
Gender: Male
Posts: 21,340
TnRedNeck721's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by stewartx View Post
Hey, it may not do much to stop a runaway truck, but any excuse to hit a Prius (or similar - I don't discriminate when it comes to wimpy cars) has at least some merit.
x2. and you get 100,000 points and jump 3 levels.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 11:09 PM   #17
Senior Member
stewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
stewartx's Avatar
Joined: Jan 2012, #70271
Location: Huntsville AL
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,831
stewartx's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ-T View Post
Nothing wrong with the Prius
You're a truly sick man, Oz.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 11:09 PM   #18
Not very sporting to fire on an unarmed opponent.
OZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
OZ-T's Avatar
Name: Peter North
Joined: Dec 2009, #27584
Location: British Columbia
Gender: Dude
Posts: 621
OZ-T's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by stewartx View Post
You're a truly sick man, Oz.
I drove the hybrid , it was a trip
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 11:27 PM   #19
Senior Member
stewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shedstewartx is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
stewartx's Avatar
Joined: Jan 2012, #70271
Location: Huntsville AL
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,831
stewartx's Tacoma Gallery
^^ Yeah, and I once drove a battery-powered forklift (8-hour shifts) for a short period in the early 70's with more horsepower than the Prius, and it could haul a heck of a lot more too. Had they changed the gear ratio of that forklift, it would have blown the doors off a modern Prius. Given that, amazing it took manufacturers decades to develop a battery-powered car.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 11:32 PM   #20
Not very sporting to fire on an unarmed opponent.
OZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
OZ-T's Avatar
Name: Peter North
Joined: Dec 2009, #27584
Location: British Columbia
Gender: Dude
Posts: 621
OZ-T's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by stewartx View Post
^^ Yeah, and I once drove a battery-powered forklift (8-hour shifts) for a short period in the early 70's with more horsepower than the Prius, and it could haul a heck of a lot more too. Had they changed the gear ratio of that forklift, it would have blown the doors off a modern Prius. Given that, amazing it took manufacturers decades to develop a battery-powered car.
I have no issue with small economical cars , not sure why anyone would
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Amazing deal on Steel Braded Brake Lines... (GROUP BUY) OCTaco Group Buys 1489 07-23-2014 06:47 PM
Where can I get the best deal for OEM brake pad replacements? 1Baddtaco 2nd Gen. Tacomas 2 04-14-2012 07:27 AM
brake master cylinder failure Louise Technical Chat 11 01-05-2011 04:29 PM
Lift Kit for Sale $200, Good deal Bad deal ? Blaktak 2nd Gen. Tacomas 7 11-11-2010 10:34 AM
2nd Gen Price Check - deal or no deal? DrWang 2nd Gen. Tacomas 6 07-14-2010 09:50 PM


Copyright © 2014 Tacoma Forum. Tacoma World is not owned by, or affiliated with Toyota Motor Corporation.