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Old 04-17-2013, 10:09 PM   #141
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:17 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by KenLyns View Post
And when/if they come out with a LT400 or a Lexcoma, Tacxus or ANY lexus truck, I'd buy that leathered up beast of a vehicle.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:20 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacomalimited View Post
Yes.I paid about $10,000 less for my Colorado(Which I traded in for the Tacoma) The only reason I traded it in was 1) I wanted something new, and the Colorado is on hiatus right now.2) I wanted a dclb small truck 3) The Tacoma is AWESOME looking!!!
Lol, what you paid isn't what it was priced at. Generally feature for feature the manufacturers aren't that far off from each other. Now when you HAVE to sell cars at any price, that's when you see this 7k in discounts and incentives from the factory and the dealer whoring the things out for 2-3k under invoice. If they COULD sell them for sticker, they would.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:23 PM   #144
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Personally anything to give Toyota some competition, even if it won't be as good, is always good for the consumer.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:24 PM   #145
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaToy1997 View Post
I'll leave it at this, as we could all sit here for months and debate product quality, price, and appearance:

Not everyone likes the same thing. Some people like bells and whistles, while others don't. Some people like the looks of a GM truck, some don't. Some people like the looks of a Toyota, others don't. For every person who shows me someone who had a bad experience with a Chevy truck, I can show you one who has had an issue with a Toyota, or a Ford, or a Dodge. It is called "Mass vehicle production" and as such, it is inherent with having a percentage of trucks which have problems that develop early, or later in life. You should see the list of TSBs I have at the shop for each manufacturer between 2010 and now. EACH one, not just one or the other. I am a Tacoma fan. I love my truck, but I also know the reality: SH1t breaks, and it doesn't care if it is a Toyota or a Ford or a GM.
Well said.. GM generally has a lot more problems. Trucks for GM/Ford have always been a strong point of their lineups though. Standing around a dealership service center may always seem the same, problems etc. The difference? Sales going out the front door. Colorado/Canyon sales combined were 0.07% of Tacomas? If they were equally reliable you would never see a post other than problems. No car is perfect, but Tacoma is pretty darned good.

NOW HOW ABOUT SOME COMPETITION!?!?! Let's push this puppy to the next level!
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:37 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaToy1997 View Post
Not directed at you, but at the quote specifically:

Funny how the claim is that they are trying to "catch up to the quality and raw appeal of the Tacoma" yet we have thread upon thread upon thread of complaints with transmission issues, suspension issues, brake problems, ABS system problems, But yeah, GM has a way to go to catch up to Toyota quality. I just find this humorous, that's all.
For some reason those don't count. Everyone turns a blind eye to these WELL known problems of the tacoma when they talk about its "reliability". Yet, someone's uncle who owned a "insert mid-sized truck here" had a noisy interior or a window regulator that went out is all that's needed to prove the crap quality of other vehicles.
I get it, the old toyota trucks were super simple and reliable. The tacoma has been riding the coat tails of the toyota truck for a long time, and it still appears that it hasn't worked out issues from the 1st gens (weak springs). The tacoma has better looks of its competition, which I contribute greatly to its success and popularity. But I wouldn't bet that my 4cyl 5spd Tacoma is any more problem free then my dads 4cyl 5spd Ranger.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:44 PM   #147
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"So far this year GM has sold only 2,200 Colorados and just over 600 Canyons. Sales of each are down nearly 80 percent as the aging trucks are phased out. Tacoma sales, however, are up almost 23 percent to just over 39,000 from January through March, according to Autodata Corp."

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Old 04-18-2013, 06:02 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forster46 View Post
"So far this year GM has sold only 2,200 Colorados and just over 600 Canyons. Sales of each are down nearly 80 percent as the aging trucks are phased out. Tacoma sales, however, are up almost 23 percent to just over 39,000 from January through March, according to Autodata Corp."

Considering the 2012 was the last year of the Colorado, I am not surprised that only 2,200 were sold in 2013. Not even a reasonable fair comparison on a vehicle that has had production stop.

As for the graph on dependability, I will say this: Yes, I never argued that the GM line was perfect. What I have said is that every vehicle has its problems, regardless of manufacturer. So if you really wanted to compare Toyota to GM on the truck end, we need that graph to reflect that. That graph covers ALL cars and trucks, not just trucks, which has been the basis of this general thread/discussion (unless I am missing something, which I don't know) But hey, let's use that graph and I will accept that the graph is a fair representation of the truck market. Let us thin it down even further to just pickups, and let's leave the 4-runners and Tahoes out of it. Just pickups. And I will keep it to the topic at hand of Toyota and GM.

Toyota has 112 per 100
Chevrolet has 125 per 100
GMC has 134 per 100

So on average 13 more complaints per 100 trucks for Chevy, and 22 more per GMC. WOW I need to go out and avoid the GM line cause they for SURE are a pile of junk! Come on, seriously? That is a laughable difference. If you have ever worked in a dealership on the service side you will realize that complaints range from a REAL issue involving mechanical or electrical problems, to silly ones like the color of the armrest does not seem to match 100% from left door to right. (I am not talking huge differences here, I am talking a real case when I was at a dealership, and even the service manager couldn't tell a difference)

If you really look at the numbers, then you would have to say that on AVERAGE, not even ONE truck survived without a complaint. NONE. Even Toyota sits at 112 per 100. That equates to a 112% failure rate on each truck made, and with Chevy, a 125% failure rate, with GMC at 134% failure rate. Sorry, but those numbers do not say to me that Toyota is way ahead of the curve on quality. Ahead of GM, sure, but not like some are implying.

Still again, Just so you don't think I am trying to just defend GM, I DO own a Tacoma, and it is the only truck I own. And I wouldn't trade it for a like model GM, Ford, or Nissan. I love my Tacoma. But not BECAUSE it is a Toyota, but because I enjoy it.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:12 AM   #149
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As always, great and logical post.

What people also forget is this is an AVERAGE. You are always going to have good or bad luck with a vehicle.

If you had asked me how Chevy vehicles were last year I would have raved about them. Now, I hate them. I believe my luck was better than average with my other GM vehicles since some had well over 150K on them. Similarly, I don't think an engine should go at 78K either..and even that I would have accepted if they stood behind their product and the warranty they wrote.

And yes when I read the Colly sales figures I laughed b/c I knew they didn't sell it in 2013. No way a fair comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaToy1997 View Post
Considering the 2012 was the last year of the Colorado, I am not surprised that only 2,200 were sold in 2013. Not even a reasonable fair comparison on a vehicle that has had production stop.

As for the graph on dependability, I will say this: Yes, I never argued that the GM line was perfect. What I have said is that every vehicle has its problems, regardless of manufacturer. So if you really wanted to compare Toyota to GM on the truck end, we need that graph to reflect that. That graph covers ALL cars and trucks, not just trucks, which has been the basis of this general thread/discussion (unless I am missing something, which I don't know) But hey, let's use that graph and I will accept that the graph is a fair representation of the truck market. Let us thin it down even further to just pickups, and let's leave the 4-runners and Tahoes out of it. Just pickups. And I will keep it to the topic at hand of Toyota and GM.

Toyota has 112 per 100
Chevrolet has 125 per 100
GMC has 134 per 100

So on average 13 more complaints per 100 trucks for Chevy, and 22 more per GMC. WOW I need to go out and avoid the GM line cause they for SURE are a pile of junk! Come on, seriously? That is a laughable difference. If you have ever worked in a dealership on the service side you will realize that complaints range from a REAL issue involving mechanical or electrical problems, to silly ones like the color of the armrest does not seem to match 100% from left door to right. (I am not talking huge differences here, I am talking a real case when I was at a dealership, and even the service manager couldn't tell a difference)

If you really look at the numbers, then you would have to say that on AVERAGE, not even ONE truck survived without a complaint. NONE. Even Toyota sits at 112 per 100. That equates to a 112% failure rate on each truck made, and with Chevy, a 125% failure rate, with GMC at 134% failure rate. Sorry, but those numbers do not say to me that Toyota is way ahead of the curve on quality. Ahead of GM, sure, but not like some are implying.

Still again, Just so you don't think I am trying to just defend GM, I DO own a Tacoma, and it is the only truck I own. And I wouldn't trade it for a like model GM, Ford, or Nissan. I love my Tacoma. But not BECAUSE it is a Toyota, but because I enjoy it.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:36 AM   #150
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pepe the little mule

Maybe they need to come up with Pepe " the little mule" from the movie Romancing the stone? or was that a FORD Truck...HHMM?
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:15 AM   #151
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:59 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenLyns View Post
There are numbers for these things. On average Toyotas have fewer problems than other brands. Lexus have fewer still.

JDPower study after 3 years (results published in 2013 for 2010 vehicles):

The weird thing about JD powers and associates,is,I got a survey from them asking about my Tacoma, but I have owned many new cars, and never got a survey from them. This is first foreign, non domestic brand, everything else was a Dodge or Chevy. if I had received that survey for my Colorado,I would have given it a great review. Strange how I never received a survey until now.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:26 AM   #153
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Something interesting I noticed about that graph. It says "Industry average - 126" But if you add all the numbers up (Excluding that particular 126) and divide by the number of listed manufacturers, I get the average as 136.9, not 126.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:45 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaToy1997 View Post
Something interesting I noticed about that graph. It says "Industry average - 126" But if you add all the numbers up (Excluding that particular 126) and divide by the number of listed manufacturers, I get the average as 136.9, not 126.
Maybe there's different volumes for each bar not shown that are taken into account?
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:00 AM   #155
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Flame suit on....

Honestly GM quality is pretty decent IMO. I will preface this by saying I currently have the 02 taco and my 92 pre taco, which I've I owned for about seven years. I've owned the GM vehicles prior, the Mrs still has one. They were all great and I would buy another.

My first car was a 92 cavalier which my father bought new. I drove it through I junior year of college (2006). At 250k miles the head gasket blew, and second gear not long after I fixed that. Prior to that it had not one major problem. Just maintenance. Crappy quality huh...

After that I picked up an 02 sunfire for cheap from a friend for cheap cause he didn't like driving stick. Had 110k miles when I got it. I put about 60k miles on it. Only problems: replaced clutch, recharge ac, replaced blower motor resistor. Seems on par with any Toyota product...

I traded today in on an 09 cobalt ss turbo. Had the car for three years. It was my track day/autocross car. I beat the ever living piss out of it. Had it for three years. I only put 30k miles on it since it was primarily for track/autocross not a DD. But those were not easy miles. Not one problem besides increased wear rate of consumables due to use.

Bought a house in late 2011 and needed something a little bigger than my 92 regular cab so I could fit the dog and Mrs at the same time, and haul more shit. That's when I got the 02 taco.

The Mrs has an 05 grand prix. Only problems: CV axle, heater core (both replaced under warranty) and exhaust rusting off. Car currently has 145k miles and still runs like a top.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 92 and my taco. They are great trucks. But, I think it's hilarious that everyone on here bashes other competitors products. Tacos have saggy springs, abs issues, etc... Even the touted pre tacos/4 runners had saggy springs, and the 3.slow was a crappy motor. Exhaust valve problems leading to premature valve and head gasket failure. Even the 22r series of engines has the timing chain tensioner issue.

In summary, all makes have their issues. I'm not convinced the Tacoma is really substantially better than others. Having owned GM and Toyota, I would buy either again.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:31 AM   #156
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Good post Sloth.
I agree with you - every Make is going to have their issues. including Toyota!
Toyota is resting on their laurels- imo.
fanboys that come over to Toyota from Chevy or Dodge or Ford will all have their nightmare stories respectively.

fanboys will be fanboys
this is TacomaWorld dammit!! right!?
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