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Old 05-20-2013, 07:36 PM   #1
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carfax says total loss, title is clean

Ok so I cosigned on a loan for my sister back in August 2011. It's a 2009 G6. When we bought it the Carfax showed clean, we still have it. Well we went to trade it in the other day at another dealership and when they ran the Carfax it showed a total loss accident back in 2010 that wasn't reported until this year! The bank says the title looks clean though, so apparently it's been washed. Now the dealership we bought it from seems to be wanting to make it right and buy back her car + reimburse what payments she has made. This after I reemed some ass mind you. Well if they pull the title and see it is clean, what kind of chances am I looking at here?
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:18 PM   #2
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You will get screwed in the end.
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:01 PM   #3
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Something doesn't seem right......How can you have a 'Total Loss' vehicle and a clean title??

Either someone's numbers are screwed up or you got screwed over when you bought the vehicle in the first place.

You should research how West Virginia handles 'Totaled' vehicles. If the TOTAL did indeed happen.... someone officially reported it to carfax at some point (insurance company??), but yet.....someone else (dealer??) had the car fixed and sold it as just a 'used' vehicle - thus hiding the truth.

If the dealer (or whomever) had the car fixed and sold without disclaiming the information to you.... MAJOR FRAUD.

Sounds like you've got some research to do....
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Old 05-21-2013, 05:07 AM   #4
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Could the second dealership have made a mistake?

Time to get digging!
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Old 05-21-2013, 05:39 AM   #5
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I would look at the CARFAX and the previous states of registry and check their records. It would be nice if the states would modify their laws to prevent title washing, but there is clearly fraud involved at some point.

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Old 05-21-2013, 05:51 AM   #6
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Salvage titles can be nothing other then an insurance write off (recovered stolen etc.) this can show up as a total. Quite often the mileage on the title will show zero. I think I would take it to a body shop and let them have a look. There is a lot of stigma attached to a salvage title and chances are pretty good you'll have a hard time getting rid of it in the future. If it truly has been wreaked let them buy it back. If you don't intend to drive it until it's ready for the bone yard you are going to lose money on it.
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:24 AM   #7
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OK, let me get this straight: The dealership that sold it to you in 2011 did a carfax report at time of sale, and it showed clean. Later on a new car fax report showed a total loss in 2010 (before the dealership sold it to you) that did not get reported until some time after you purchased the truck. Now the original selling dealer wants to make good by buying it back, including monthly payments paid in. I am guessing from your post also that from the sounds of it, she will get back everything she put in to the purchase of the vehicle, not to include of course insurance, gas, maintenance costs, etc... Am I good so far?

If that were the case I would welcome the buy back, and make sure that I bought a replacement vehicle from that exact same dealer! Sounds like they are going on the up and up here. They did a fair research when you purchased the car. It was not their fault that a total loss was not reported until well after they sold you the car. In good faith, and fairness, they are offering to buy it back for what she has in it. Sounds like a dealership that I would be buying everything from then on from. That my friend is what is called a reputable business model!
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaToy1997 View Post
If that were the case I would welcome the buy back, and make sure that I bought a replacement vehicle from that exact same dealer! Sounds like they are going on the up and up here. They did a fair research when you purchased the car. It was not their fault that a total loss was not reported until well after they sold you the car. In good faith, and fairness, they are offering to buy it back for what she has in it. Sounds like a dealership that I would be buying everything from then on from. That my friend is what is called a reputable business model!
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Old 05-21-2013, 07:16 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaToy1997 View Post
That my friend is what is called a reputable business model!
Or....they're scared shitless and kissing your ass to buy you off.

If its a classic fraud case - they could LOSE their business. The last thing they want is have it reported.

I don't know what would become of a situation like that - but I would be afraid of 'hiding' the truth. In other words - if you accept the buy back well knowing the situation at hand..... Can you be charged with partially being involved simply by not reporting it?

Something to think about.....
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Old 05-21-2013, 12:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janster View Post
Or....they're scared shitless and kissing your ass to buy you off.

If its a classic fraud case - they could LOSE their business. The last thing they want is have it reported.

I don't know what would become of a situation like that - but I would be afraid of 'hiding' the truth. In other words - if you accept the buy back well knowing the situation at hand..... Can you be charged with partially being involved simply by not reporting it?

Something to think about.....
I love how common it is for people to always assume the worst when it comes to a business...of course THEY are always on the up and up with everything. Heaven forbid a company is trying to do the right thing.

But ok, let us play Devil's advocate here and say that they are trying to cover their ass. They have offered to buy the vehicle back, as well as recoup the purchaser's payments to this point. What is the problem here? The customer is not going to be out anything, as according to the OP they were looking at trading the vehicle in anyway. They will be getting all of their cash money that they put in. So even if the original dealer was "covering their a$$es", the OP and his sister are going to be coming out ahead of the deal, as they will not have to deal with any depreciation loss over TWO years.

If the total loss was not reported until some time after the dealer sold them the vehicle, how can they be trying to "cover" anything? Car fax came back clean when they ran it upon initial sale. It is not up to the selling dealer to constantly monitor the goings on of every car they sell AFTER it has been sold. They did fair business practices when they sold it, and are being on the up and up with offering a buyback.
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Old 05-21-2013, 12:45 PM   #11
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I don't see the problem either. Take the full buyback and keep the paperwork which proves they acknowledged there was a mistake and that they bought it back in full and then it is out of your hands.

Only keep it if you love the vehicle and you intend to keep it until it is has little value left anyway.
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Old 05-21-2013, 12:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaToy1997 View Post
If the total loss was not reported until some time after the dealer sold them the vehicle, how can they be trying to "cover" anything?
If they are the one who had it repaired?
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaToy1997 View Post

If the total loss was not reported until some time after the dealer sold them the vehicle, how can they be trying to "cover" anything? Car fax came back clean when they ran it upon initial sale. It is not up to the selling dealer to constantly monitor the goings on of every car they sell AFTER it has been sold. They did fair business practices when they sold it, and are being on the up and up with offering a buyback.
A total loss means it should be reported ASAP. Even if the dealer acquired the vehicle from another person... The dealer should've done their homework to research it further when transferring the vehicle into their ownership. I can't believe a totalled vehicle can go that far into the system without being noticed.

I'm just saying... The OP needs to take all aspects into consideration.

A very sticky situation to be in. I'd get the reimbursement -but be VERY VERY careful of any paperwork they want you to sign. In fact... Take the money and never deal with that dealership again.
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:41 PM   #14
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I would say it kind of depends on what kind of dealer. An established reputable new car dealer you would expect the chances they knew or participated would be very low.

But some (not all) of these independent "dealers" that buy and flip used cars, are sometimes known to stray to the shady side.
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:01 PM   #15
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Something to read....

http://www.hg.org/auto-dealer-fraud.html

Failure to Disclose a Salvaged or Flood-Damaged Vehicles (related to vehicle title fraud), where a used vehicle is sold to the customer without disclosing that the vehicle has incurred significant damage, been designated as a salvaged vehicle pursuant to a car accident, or has been flood-damaged;

In many states, victims of auto dealer fraud are required to contact the auto dealer first to afford the dealer the opportunity to resolve the problem, before the victim can pursue legal action against the dealer. If the dealer fails to resolve your issue, you may then consult an attorney knowledgeable in auto dealer fraud to determine if you should proceed with a civil lawsuit.
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:07 PM   #16
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Sorry for the late response everyone, not only am I dealing with this mess but I'm also in the middle of some remodeling. Anyway, this situation has turned out to be way easier than I thought it would be. After initially going back to the dealership and letting them know I would be contacting lawyers if I found out they knowingly sold me a totaled vehicle and didn't disclose it, they've been kissing ass since. This dealership is very large, but has a bad rep for being dirty. However, I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt.

They GM called me today and told me he personally researched this. Turns out this vehicle was wrecked in Ohio, transferred to a WV title then straight back to an Ohio title before it was traded in to them. It had a clean title at that point. He is going to still buy her car back, pay her $4800 in payments she made, AND offered her a Toyota of her choice at his cost, + an extra $500 off, her first set of tires for free, AND is allowing her to take advantage o the 5 years no interest. Needless to say she is all for a Toyota now ! I am pushing or her to get a Corolla S but she's loving the luxurious Camry LE! I'm happy with how easily this had been resolved. I spent all night researching and preparing an argument for nothing lol. Thanks again for all your input! Y'all are great
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:21 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gupster88 View Post
Sorry for the late response everyone, not only am I dealing with this mess but I'm also in the middle of some remodeling. Anyway, this situation has turned out to be way easier than I thought it would be. After initially going back to the dealership and letting them know I would be contacting lawyers if I found out they knowingly sold me a totaled vehicle and didn't disclose it, they've been kissing ass since.

I spent all night researching and preparing an argument for nothing lol. Thanks again for all your input! Y'all are great
Awesome!!

It's all about CYA - Covering Your ASS. Don't ever think you've wasted your time researching to prepare yourself to fight for what you deserve. All too often businesses / dealerships take advantage of consumers. Thank God that Dealership accepted their fault in the situation.

I hope the GM of that Dealership learns something from this and cleans up their 'dirty ways' ....cuz sooner or later, it will haunt them.
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:38 AM   #18
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Take the $ and get a new car from them. Sounds like they are doing right
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:10 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gupster88 View Post
Sorry for the late response everyone, not only am I dealing with this mess but I'm also in the middle of some remodeling. Anyway, this situation has turned out to be way easier than I thought it would be. After initially going back to the dealership and letting them know I would be contacting lawyers if I found out they knowingly sold me a totaled vehicle and didn't disclose it, they've been kissing ass since. This dealership is very large, but has a bad rep for being dirty. However, I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt.

They GM called me today and told me he personally researched this. Turns out this vehicle was wrecked in Ohio, transferred to a WV title then straight back to an Ohio title before it was traded in to them. It had a clean title at that point. He is going to still buy her car back, pay her $4800 in payments she made, AND offered her a Toyota of her choice at his cost, + an extra $500 off, her first set of tires for free, AND is allowing her to take advantage o the 5 years no interest. Needless to say she is all for a Toyota now ! I am pushing or her to get a Corolla S but she's loving the luxurious Camry LE! I'm happy with how easily this had been resolved. I spent all night researching and preparing an argument for nothing lol. Thanks again for all your input! Y'all are great
My earlier posts appear to now be vindicated. As I said, it sounded like the dealership is doing what it can to take care of you. Obviously they would be worried about a lawsuit, but again, from the way you describe things, they did not do anything intentional here. Sounds like someone ELSE washed the title and screwed the dealership to me. Glad to hear that on your end the results are acceptable and that your sister is getting a car she wants. Actually when you look at the entire course of events, she is actually going to be coming out ahead of the game!
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:12 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaToy1997 View Post
OK, let me get this straight: The dealership that sold it to you in 2011 did a carfax report at time of sale, and it showed clean. Later on a new car fax report showed a total loss in 2010 (before the dealership sold it to you) that did not get reported until some time after you purchased the truck. Now the original selling dealer wants to make good by buying it back, including monthly payments paid in. I am guessing from your post also that from the sounds of it, she will get back everything she put in to the purchase of the vehicle, not to include of course insurance, gas, maintenance costs, etc... Am I good so far?

If that were the case I would welcome the buy back, and make sure that I bought a replacement vehicle from that exact same dealer! Sounds like they are going on the up and up here. They did a fair research when you purchased the car. It was not their fault that a total loss was not reported until well after they sold you the car. In good faith, and fairness, they are offering to buy it back for what she has in it. Sounds like a dealership that I would be buying everything from then on from. That my friend is what is called a reputable business model!
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