Bad news for Honda and the next generation ridgeline?

Saw this while browsing the Ridgeline forums. I had no idea Honda was in trouble, hopefully the next gen Ridgeline is still coming out in 2016.

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Well a lot of information became public today, and some of it explains the rumored Pilot and Ridgeline delays. Ito had planned on making the Fit Honda's mainstream car (above Civic and Accord) but the new fit has been plagued with problems. They built a new assembly plant in Mexico expecting it to needed to fill the demand for the Fit. Well the new Fit has been a disaster. It's only been out a year and has been officially recalled 5 times and nearly every one built has been 'rebuilt' to fix significant changes after the vehicles left the assembly plant. Due to the bad crash test ratings Honda is going to do some major changes to the 12,000 Fit's sold in the USA to try and improve their safety. Ito announced yesterday a 20% pay cut for himself and all top Honda executives due to their "spiraling problems that have bruised its once sterling reputation for quality". He also announced Koichi Fukuo as the new Quality Czar. He's essentially going to be the head of all Honda R&D and is going to make sweeping changes in the R&D process that "may delay product launches". I've mentioned here many times how compartmentalized Honda's R&D was. Engineers weren't allowed to discuss matters outside of their specific duties with other engineers, etc. That was a terrible policy and is now being changed. Here's what they have to say about this issue... read closely: "Under changes to Honda's r&d operations revealed last month, a prototype will be used earlier in the research process to test how independently developed parts work together in a full vehicle. Previously, the Japanese carmaker, known for its bulletproof production process, never actually pulled the components together until after research was completed and development was underway. The r&d changes will increase the cost and time of developing vehicles at Honda, just two years after it adopted a sweeping overhaul of product development aimed at speeding localization and better tailoring cars to local markets. Before, engineers in the research phase created automobile systems in isolated parallel silos. The components were green-lighted independently and then sent to the development phase, where other engineers would install them in a prototype vehicle. Now, the systems are installed in a prototype vehicle in the research stage to ensure they function seamlessly." What they describe is the process every major automaker already uses. Honda tried this 'isolation' mode and it frustrated everyone involved (they called it "silos" and you weren't allowed out of your silo). Additionally Honda says the airbag recall issue is taxing their ability to move forward on new projects. The new hybrid / DCT has also been a nightmare... so bad that it's been recalled many times and many owners complain that it fails to shift gears or totally immobilizes the car. In summary, it seems that Honda has finally realized that their quality has gone to hell, and their R&D process was terrible. They have so many old problems to fix they can't move forward with new products. And now the new Quality Czar is going to totally revamp the R&D process worldwide. That can mean nothing more than significant delays since you can't make these changes overnight. People have been asking me about spy photos of the next-generation Ridgeline. I've said I don't think they exist. I said this because of the way Honda had gone with their R&D processes of not even bothering to build prototypes. I don't know what any of the above means to the next-generation Ridgeline, but there are major shakeups going on at Honda right now. Ito doesn't need to take a pay cut, he needs to LEAVE. You can search back to my many posts on ROC where I predicted years ago that he would run Honda into the ground. He has succeeded at doing that. Only at this late date does he realize the huge problems he has caused. Honda is already way behind the curve compared to the competition and this is a very late date to try and START to fix those problems. I hope they can move fast and get back to engineering, designing, and building what people expect from Honda, but I think there are some dark days ahead before that can happen. In the automobile industry when you move fast things usually turn out poorly (Ito's Civic debacle is a perfect example). I hope the Ridgeline isn't a casualty of such blatant mismanagement.


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http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/...ge=302#/forumsite/20673/topics/70634?page=307

 

They will get through it.

 

Interesting. I saw an attractive 2012 Accord in a lot a couple of weeks ago. Almost pulled the trigger. Went home and checked some reviews and immediately changed my mind. Seems you can't let it set more than a couple of days (at least in a cold climate) without charging the battery. The CVT has issues. The seats are reportedly uncomfortable. I notice the '15 CR-V has a CVT. Wonder if it has the same problems?

Bought SWMBO a '14 CR-V. Hope it works out.

 

McLaren may be upset to hear this

 

This was the last year of the "good" Civic, the 2012+ civic's are horrible. The car was the best selling car in Canada for nearly 15 years straight. That all ended in 2012 with the new redesign, the same year Ito took over as the boss of Honda and changed the design process.

 

Have had a slew of problems and times I've needed to take my 2012 Si in for repairs: new clutch at 37,000 miles, new front end paint, reprogrammed computer to charge the battery properly, leaky rear shocks, leaky valve cover gasket, etc.

 

That sucks, I had a 2006 Si(first year with the K20) and it was a dream. I did a lot of mods and it always held together. Very fast fun reliable cars.

 

The first and second gen Fit's are considered some of the most reliable cars in recent history. Made in Japan they were. I knew the new Fit would be trash as soon as I found out it was made in Mexico. I think its more than just "assembly". I prefer Japan made cars and would overpay for one.

I posted once before about having 2 identical model, trim, year, engine, trans Honda Accord's. One was Mexico made the other Japan. The Japan made one was clearly better built and everything felt of better quality. Manufacture de Mejico, no thanks.

 

Good research Vantage. I was going to mention this a few weeks ago, that the next Ridgeline would be a 2017 model as per my own recent findings. If they do it right like chris4x4 believes, the 2016 Tacoma may have some real competition. Shocking that it will take them 3 years to go from design buck to assembly line, versus the usual two years or less.

 

Sadly, a lot of buyers like me who are waiting for a next gen midsize that isn't domestic will buy a 2016 Tacoma instead of waiting for a 2017 Ridgeline.

I hope the Ridge does come out for 2016 so I can look at both vehicles, but If not the next Limited trim Tacoma will likely be my purchase.

I hope they bring out a supercharger for it as I want more power on my current truck but can't justify buying an SC when I know a new truck is a year or so away.

 

I wouldn't blame you for not waiting, as Honda engineers and their suppliers are already listing them as 2017. Their next Civic is listed as 2016, so you've confirmed a lot on that front. Don't want a stick anymore though? I don't think the Limited comes with one nor will the Ridgeline. The 2016 Tacoma even though the design efforts give the impression of all-new, it really isn't. I wouldn't have caught that if both pbm and someone else (personally) hadn't mentioned that to me.

BTW, you have good taste in vehicles.

 

The Ridgeline has never come with a stick, so it's highly unlikely they will change that now.

David

 

I wasn't too shocked by that when first seeing them in 2005 and later that year when my mother was offered an '06 RTL by a pushy salesman for her business. I only liked them for a brief spell in 2005-06, then was even further put-off by its facelift. My eyes were dead-set on the Tacoma for that reason, as I like to row my own.

 

Thanks Vantage. Really appreciate you posting this info.

I am in the same boat as some others. Was already leaning toward the new Taco due to the potential for a manual transmission, but this seals the deal.

 

New truck would be $35,000 - $25,000 for my trade in. So closer to $10,000 than $35l

I believe pbm when he says it is coming next year, with the options I want and a 3.5L engine and 6 speed automatic tranny. Sounds great other than I would want more power.

I hate the Tacoma 6 speed, I have had many cars/trucks...

1990 CRX Si engine and tranny swap
2001 Civic LX used for AutoX
2001 Tacoma Offroad, lifted and locked.
2006 Civic Si mild engine build and tune.
2004 v8 4Runner <- amazing engine and tranny combo.
2012 VW GLI
1992 4Runner
and Current 2011 Tacoma.

Of these vehicle only the V8 4Runner was an auto, and by a mile the Tacoma's 6speed is the worst. I upgraded to a TRD quickshift and that helped a little but it still is horrible. It has a horrible feel (long, vague changes), offers WORSE gas mileage than the automatic, is less strong than the automatic and is NOISY as hell!

I will be buying an Auto for my next vehicle. Unless I was buying another sports car, an automatic is a better choice. IMO the newer gen of 7/8/9 speed tranny's are better than any standard. They are smooth, help make small engines feel WAY faster, and get better gas mileage.

You never see a new standard vehicle that gets better gas mileage and faster acceleration than an equivalent automatic.

 

Honda will be fine, they have plenty of cash and a great R&D team. Their recent financial results while not great for Honda are on par with Ford which recently had it's best year ever. So, even in a less than great year for Honda they are performing as well as Ford (considered strong for a US named auto manufacture) during it's best year. In addition, Honda has significantly increased it's R&D spending over the past year, not as a percentage but in absolute "dollars".

I remember when Handas used to be cool. I think the biggest, long term problem with Honda is that they've lost their marketing mojo. Their products seem to be aging with their clients.

 

Enough for you to buy one over a Tacoma, assuming the new Tacoma has some drivetrain and modernization changes over the current one?

I've always sort of thought of Honda as a maker of driving appliances. Well-built, reliable, but sold primarily to the point-a to point-b crowd. It'd be interesting to see something that changes that.

That said, the same could be said about many of Toyota's offerings. I think the 4Runner and Tacoma are some of the exceptions.