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Old 10-29-2010, 05:13 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brutalguyracing View Post
thanks for the link
i think this is mostly people not doing basic gun safety
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Originally Posted by 225nontypical View Post
cnbc is full of it. bottom line is this follow the 10 commandments of shooting and you should be good.
the other thing is Both Remington and experts hired by trial lawyers have conducted testing on guns returned from the field which were claimed to have fired without a trigger pull, and neither has ever been able to duplicate such an event on guns which had been properly maintained and which had not been altered after sale.
go here if you want the real truth. (see below)
www.Remington700.tv

Did you see the video of the Policeman pulling the trigger, the rifle NOT firing, and as soon as he put one finger one the bolt handle, it went off. It was repeatable.
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Old 10-29-2010, 05:18 AM   #22
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thank you for all your input. my goal was not to bash remington. they do make great firearms. i hope this problem can be corrected. its terrible that people did lose loved ones. but like a lot of you said alway treat a firearm like its loaded and ready to go off. happy shooting.
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Old 10-29-2010, 06:24 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98tacoma27 View Post
Did you see the video of the Policeman pulling the trigger, the rifle NOT firing, and as soon as he put one finger one the bolt handle, it went off. It was repeatable.
who's to say that gun wasnt tampered with? I could see the gun control lobbyists pulling some shit like that
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Old 10-29-2010, 06:42 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Runner View Post
who's to say that gun wasnt tampered with? I could see the gun control lobbyists pulling some shit like that
The USMC. They have reports of up to 2 of every 20 rounds doing this.
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Old 10-29-2010, 06:55 AM   #25
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While I don't own a 700 bolt action, I do own a 760 pump action 30.06...and to be honest I did immediately google to see if I could have a problem. This was before watching the show...

I watched the show and realized very quickly what I was seeing, modern journalism at its finest. Lots of open ended questions, lots of ominous music, and plenty of quick video clips and quick looks at horrific pictures of gunshot "accident" victims.

I think the issue's at hand really are 1 ) Remington clearly has an issue that should have been resolved 2 ) one sided "journalism" rules the day ( on both sides of every issue ).

The gun designer admits he thought there was a problem. There is a problem. The scope of the problem seems to be exaggerated though. For instance, as horrible as it was, the woman who lost her son. She was clearing the gun when it fired. She was attempting to clear that weapon while it was pointed at her son! Jeebus Lady! I think a quick poll of gunowners on this site would reveal that we have never pointed a gun at one of our children....ever! Its already been beaten to death here but gun safety, gun safety, gun safety. Also no one dare asked if there was confirmaiton that the gun was indeed in a "safe mode" at all. I had to explain to a friend of mine who was checking out my remmy the other day not to put his finger on trigger, point it around like Rambo, and insist on switching the safety off. Was it loaded...no, did I check it after I took it out of the case eventhough I know its unloaded....yes. Its sad, its horrible, and yes, Remington has a problem because any defect like that should be, must be resolved. But to cast Remington in this "evil empire" light who doesn't care if people die is ridiculous.

A couple quick points and than I will officially dismount my soapbox for the morning ( going hunting, two more days of early ML here in the Republic Of Maryland ).

1 ) They did not address the issue of triggers being adjusted other than a quick mention. The professional shooter they showed allowing his rifle to discharge after the safety being switched? Who knows if that trigger pull had been adjusted.

2 ) They did not have one person provide a solid argument "for" Remington. Not one. No questioning of the validity of the "accident perpetrators" stories. Just playing the devil's advocate here...but...I would think many people who may accidentally shoot themselves or a loved one may feel the need to either convince themselves it was the gun malfunctioning or even dare I say...fibb a bit to cover their own behind? Or to just make themselves be able to attempt to sleep at night again. Any gun accident is a horrible horrible thing...but we also have to be rational and examine all the facts.

3 ) Again, while I believe there is some "issue", the question of how bad it really is, and how much is operator error was never resolved. Just another piece of crap that passes for "investigative" journalism. Designed to get you worried, fearful, and most of all WATCHING!

John Stossel had an interesting show on Fox Business Network ( HE is a libertarian please keep that in mind ) on how the news scares us and how chemicals are not killing us as the shows would have us believe. While I don't agree with everything he said on this episode its nice to see someone asking questions and WAITING for answers rather than just trying to scare people.

Done....

EDIT: If the USMC had an official report of that gun popping off 2 out of 20 rounds, don't you think they would have used it in the show? That seems like a pretty big deal. I am not saying it doesn't happen to you guys, but if it does why wasn't that brought up, and are those guns the same through and through as the off the shelf variety? I find it hard to believe that a USMC sniper is shouldering the same stock 700 as Billy Bob who picked it up at Walmart.
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:02 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2007tacoOldLineSt View Post
EDIT: If the USMC had an official report of that gun popping off 2 out of 20 rounds, don't you think they would have used it in the show? That seems like a pretty big deal. I am not saying it doesn't happen to you guys, but if it does why wasn't that brought up, and are those guns the same through and through as the off the shelf variety? I find it hard to believe that a USMC sniper is shouldering the same stock 700 as Billy Bob who picked it up at Walmart.
They did. It was quoted from the Sniper School.
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:28 AM   #27
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I like, in the opening segment on the CNBC report, the reporter is holding a 700 rifle, he is going on about the various misfire and accidental shootings. The whole time while bashing the rifle he had his finger on the trigger .

That being said, I believe they made a case for problematic trigger.
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Old 10-29-2010, 11:36 AM   #28
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the media will spin it how ever they want period. i have owned several all my friends own them, my dad and grandpa owned then i must have been around hundreds of these and not one of them has had a problem! reply above was a direct quote from Remington, do i know for sure they have never recreated the event no, they did in the show but how do we know they did not tamper with it first? all i am saying is i do not believe it to be as big of problem as it was made out to be. again follow proper firearms handling and 99.9% of the deaths and injuries would not have happened.
i also believe a lot of the time people are making excuses for being stupid and unsafe. i also do not believe the military would allow suck a problem to continue and according Remington the military still uses there stuff? i am not an expert but i trust my remington's they same as the rest of my guns.
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:40 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98tacoma27 View Post
They did. It was quoted from the Sniper School.

I don't follow. In the show the "quote" someone form sniper school? Or you know from sniper school?

If thats true, it blows my mind that the military would knowingly put a "defective" rifle in someones hands. Something just doesn't add up.

Either way its seems like everyone is ending up with the same conclusion...problem with trigger + media sensationalism = 2 pages of posts on Tacoma World!
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:48 PM   #30
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This explains how the trigger works and how it fails

http://www.gunsmiths.com/articledetail.php?id=87
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Old 10-29-2010, 11:14 PM   #31
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The problem lies with the Walker trigger system, which has already been removed from Remington's current line of 700s, and was phased out of most variations of the 700 starting in 2002.

The heart of the issue is that the connector is floating and not directly attached to the trigger/housing other than by a spring. Given over adjustment, grit, abuse, or bad luck, the spring can fail to do it's job and the rifle can malfunction resulting in a discharge.

There are a number of other issues at hand as well though. As someone already pointed out, at NO TIME should a gun ever be pointed at another person, whether the safety is on or not. While the deaths and accidents that have occurred are tragic and I am not belittling them, those individuals broke the 4 rules. Those rules exist to give guidance to avoid accidents, and if they are followed, even when a mechanical issue exists, nobody would have been injured. I've been shooting since I was four, and was taught from the beginning to obey those rules, and (knock on wood) have never had any AD/NDs, or had a mechanical issue result in an injury.

For the last six years I've worked in the firearms industry, and have owned a few 700s, worked on a handful, fired a few dozen, and sold a couple hundred. I have never experienced a mechanical malfunction resulting in a discharge. I have been aware the problem existed for years, but never encountered it personally. Although, in my working on customers 700s one of the things I always did was install Jewel triggers.

Personally I think that Remington should have corrected this issue much sooner than 2002, however, lots of other companies sell products which cause as many or more deaths/injuries, and they rarely come "under fire" in the media the way Remington has (other than maybe Toyota lol). There is definitely a little bit of anti-gun politics behind this story.

As to the USMC reports (didn't see them) I find those irrelevant. Every Remington 700 (M40) the Corps uses is hand built by USMC armorers in Quantico, and they do all their own trigger work. They are not using stock factory rifles, so how their testing/results could be applied to this story is beyond me.

Remington may use it as an advertisement byline, but the 700 really has been the "standard" in affordable American hunting and target rifles for decades. Their handling of this issue may not have been great, but that shouldn't outweigh the millions of 700s in closets, safes, and cabinets across the country that have not malfunctioned and are favorite deer rifles or family heirlooms.

I admit that last paragraph is a bit fanboyish, but it's just my opinion.
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:54 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Runner View Post



she shot her own kid b/c she "was certain her finger was not on the trigger" you better be 10000% sure...

I instruct for 4-H shooting sports. Kids as young as 8. I can GUARANTEE that if you called any one of them right now, and asked them what the first rule was, they would say "point the muzzle in a safe direction"......all of them.

If you point the muzzle in a safe direction, and it goes off "accidentally" you won't kill anyone.......


All that being said, if Remington knows there is a problem, they should fix it. I can replace the entire trigger on a 700 in less than 5 minutes with fairly simple tools. I'm sure it would cost some $$ but they need to suck it up.

I have several 700's, and I won't be selling any of them any time soon.
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Old 11-17-2010, 05:26 PM   #33
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Check out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_KVS1hIbQg it is remington's response to the cnbc anti-gun propaganda
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Old 11-17-2010, 05:50 PM   #34
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I have a Rem 700BDL with a Timney Trigger set at 8oz, and i have never had that gun go off by its self. And that trigger is damn light trust me.
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:23 PM   #35
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I have a 700 SPS Tactical and have never had any issues. No one that I know has had an issue with the Remington 700. At this point I would have to believe Rem's response until better evidence can be shown. Like they said, Remington is not responsible once you start tinkering with, and customizing the internals.
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:36 PM   #36
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I've had two Rem 700s and loved them both. Never had a safety issue because...I know how to treat a gun...shocker.

That being said, I've sold my Remingtons but will always keep my Win Model 70. Best rifle I've ever fired, bar none.
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