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If you had to pick: .45 or 9mm

View Poll Results: If you only owned one gun what would it shoot?
9mm 168 44.80%
.45 207 55.20%
Voters: 375. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-19-2012, 12:18 PM   #321
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We all know that the primary objective of a bullet is to kill or incapacitate its target. On this, the diameter of a bullet plays a significant role.

For me, a big bullet travelling at a moderate speed seems to have a better "stopping power" than to smaller bullet travelling at high speed - even with the same notional muzzle energy.

Compare between .45acp pistol and 9mm Luger cartridges. The 9mm ammo fires a .353in (9mm) diameter, 115 grain (7.45 g) jacketed bullet at approximately 1150 fps (350 mps) giving muzzle energy of 338 ft lb (458 joules).

Some .45 ACP service ammo (hardball, fires a .45in (11.5mm) diameter, 230 grain (14.9 g) bullet of 800 fps (243 mps) for327 ft lb (443 joules).

On the basis of muzzle energy it is claimed that the 9mm Luger is more powerful, yet in accurately documented firefights, the .45 ACP hardball has proved time and time again to be more effective at killing and incapacitating an opponents with fewer shots. Because "BIG HOLES LET IN A LOT OF AIR AND LET OUT A LOT OF BLOOD".

Any comments pls to start a new studies on this two most debated cartridges.

Thanks
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:26 PM   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kessler89 View Post
yeah this is a fail move

i'm not saying i'm out to "kill someone" but if you're breaking into my house the last thing i really wanna do is scare you off and then give you another chance to come back when i'm not home, instead i'll be standing at the top of the stairs to meet you with a hail of gunfire that you'll never see coming so i dont have to worry about you coming back to harm my family
Well we can do these scenarios all damn day. If you are going into a house and came around a corner with a shotgun aimed at you. You wouldn't know if it is loaded or not. Having the action cycled would definitely make you think twice about your next move.

NOW, if I was the homeowner and I KNEW the perp had a gun, then yes my chamber would already be loaded.

I just practice good gun safety by having all of my guns unloaded in the house. Even if they are in a safe.

And for less experienced shooters, they are more likely to hit something with a shotgun than a handgun that they may have fired only a handful of times.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:40 PM   #323
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I have had a bit of training and have put a bunch of rounds through a service .45 so that's my weapon of choice between the 9mm and .45. However, were I to have to pick one of the two for most civilians I'd probably go with the 9mm because of the magazine capacity. My .45 1911A1's clip held 7 rounds; my civilian Hi Power 9mm held 13.

A .45 doesn't have a whale of a lot of muzzle velocity either. I've fired many a round out of .45s and grease guns and it's sort of weird that you can actually see the bullets go down range if you pay attention. Sight a .45 in at 25 m and it's going to be OK out to about 50 m but is going to drop like a rock past that. The 9mm is a bit flatter-shooting and if it's not windy I can hit fairly well to 75 m if I really take my time from a prone position, but you probably are not going to be shooting at anyone in a "home defense" situation at that range.

At 25 m I can hit you with a shotgun with my eyes closed if you make any noise.

Edit: Actually, if I buy another semi-automatic handgun it will probably be a .40 but I'm also looking at a Ruger GP100, as I miss my old Security Six, which I really shouldn't have sold.
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:05 PM   #324
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:07 PM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warputer View Post
I'm in the decision phase myself. Tax returns coming in next week & I can't make up my mind......kinda leaning more to a 40 myself.
im leading towards a 40 myself too. 45 cal is a little too expensive for me. but the 40 I looked at was about 350. might pick up a 9mm to practice shoot with too.
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:14 PM   #326
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:31 PM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGrimm View Post
Well we can do these scenarios all damn day. If you are going into a house and came around a corner with a shotgun aimed at you. You wouldn't know if it is loaded or not. Having the action cycled would definitely make you think twice about your next move.

NOW, if I was the homeowner and I KNEW the perp had a gun, then yes my chamber would already be loaded.

I just practice good gun safety by having all of my guns unloaded in the house. Even if they are in a safe.

And for less experienced shooters, they are more likely to hit something with a shotgun than a handgun that they may have fired only a handful of times.

... ^^^ ... x 2 ...
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:50 PM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGrimm View Post
And for less experienced shooters, they are more likely to hit something with a shotgun than a handgun that they may have fired only a handful of times.
I disagree.

Unless they are using birdshot... which is largely ineffective against a human target beyond point-blank (there's a reason birdshot is used for birds and buckshot is used for bucks).
Everyone seems to think that a shotgun will give a 3ft "kill" pattern. It doesn't, at least not at typical home defense range.

And what "shotgun"? 10ga? 12ga? 16ga? 20ga? 410?
There's a huge difference in both impact and the ability to handle them. My wife is pretty damned good with any handgun I've given her.
He hadn't shot anything in at least 20 years, and she was getting inside the 9 ring with my XD9 at 7 yards 10 out of 10 shots.
Shotgun? With her physical limitations, she would seriously injure herself with anything larger than a 20ga.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:11 PM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1980 View Post
I have had a bit of training and have put a bunch of rounds through a service .45 so that's my weapon of choice between the 9mm and .45. However, were I to have to pick one of the two for most civilians I'd probably go with the 9mm because of the magazine capacity. My .45 1911A1's clip held 7 rounds; my civilian Hi Power 9mm held 13.

A .45 doesn't have a whale of a lot of muzzle velocity either. I've fired many a round out of .45s and grease guns and it's sort of weird that you can actually see the bullets go down range if you pay attention. Sight a .45 in at 25 m and it's going to be OK out to about 50 m but is going to drop like a rock past that. The 9mm is a bit flatter-shooting and if it's not windy I can hit fairly well to 75 m if I really take my time from a prone position, but you probably are not going to be shooting at anyone in a "home defense" situation at that range.

At 25 m I can hit you with a shotgun with my eyes closed if you make any noise.

Edit: Actually, if I buy another semi-automatic handgun it will probably be a .40 but I'm also looking at a Ruger GP100, as I miss my old Security Six, which I really shouldn't have sold.



what?


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Old 03-19-2012, 09:24 PM   #330
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I'm still going with a pheasant or goose load for home defense. I know for a fact that birdshot can kill within the distance of a room or hallway because I've bagged the bodies and attended the autopsies. I once treated a broken femur caused by a .410 slug too -- that guy was alive but he sure wasn't interested in causing any trouble for anyone. If I live in the house next door to you I would hope that you are shooting something that won't go through my walls and kill me too. If you have a handgun for home defense though and have family or nearby neighbors you might consider using frangible bullets.

Something like #4 buckshot would be good too as it combines more penetration with a small enough pellet size to not go through too many walls; here it gives about 10" penetration in gel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDjNa...eature=related

To the person who decries my use of the word "clip," I spent six years in the Army and nobody ever asked me what I meant when I asked for a few .45 clips. Technically correct sometimes varies from commonly-used. For instance, a brook 'trout' isn't a trout at all -- it's a char, but if you want to call it a trout I know what you are talking about.
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:37 PM   #331
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yeah the spread on buck shot or even bird shot at 20 feet will be about 4-6 inches around to those of you guys thinkin you'll just buy a shotgun cause they're noisy and you dont have to aim them

not arguing that a shotgun isn't a good HD weapon, just the intimidation and aiming part

edit, when i used to keep a 12ga stocked up for HD it always had #4 BUCK shot in it, little more spread, little more pellets, little LESS over penatration
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:36 AM   #332
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Wow, lots of misinformation on this thread.

First things first. Buy a shotgun for your home defense. It's $200 and will give you the exact knock down power you need for home defense.

For a plinking handgun, buy a cheap 9mm that you find comfortable.

This will cost you way less than a cheap 1911, and will cost less than a medium to higher end 9mm, while giving you exactly what you need.

As far as knock down power and the .45 myths, well it's all subjective. You can shoot a man in the arm with a .50cal all day and it won't kill him till he finally bleeds out. Caliber is not the only consideration for self defense. Your ability to fire the round comfortably and accurately are what counts.

I personally go with .40s&w, because it's a combination of power, ease of shooting, and capacity. The more rounds you carry, the more able you are to defend against multiple attackers without having to reload.

No matter how bad ass your bullet is (hydroshocks, black talons, ranger sxt's, TAPs, whatever), you need to be able to place it on target where it can do some real damage to your attacker. Even if you hit him right in the heart, you still shoot again.

I've seen an inmate who is only in prison because he shot a guy in the back of the head at point blank and the bullet travelled around the skull instead of penetrating it. It made a big enough mess that the inmate thought the guy was dead. Nope, he lived and he sqwaked in court and the inmate is down for a long time. I've seen a guy shot three times in the back with a .223, which does a whole lot of different kind of damage than a handgun and is way more effective at killing than any handgun round on the market. He was walking around a cell that same night he got shot.

Again, whatever you choose, make sure you can shoot it accurately, comfortably, fast, and have enough rounds on you to take care of at least 2 attackers at once.

If you feel comfortable with a 1911, then use it. If you feel comfortable with a glock or xd, or whatever in 9mm, .40, whatver, then use it.

The worst assumption you can make when it comes to self defense is that you will end a fight with one shot. Even if it's only one guy, you shoot him till he stops.

Okay, /end rant.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:39 AM   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kessler89 View Post
yeah the spread on buck shot or even bird shot at 20 feet will be about 4-6 inches around to those of you guys thinkin you'll just buy a shotgun cause they're noisy and you dont have to aim them

not arguing that a shotgun isn't a good HD weapon, just the intimidation and aiming part

edit, when i used to keep a 12ga stocked up for HD it always had #4 BUCK shot in it, little more spread, little more pellets, little LESS over penatration

Federal 00 buckshot has a tight group at 20yards(60feet), and is what most LE uses(well at least my dept). I wouldn't use it for home defense though.

Also if you are worried about the spread, you can apply a full choke. If you are worried about overpenetration, use lower power shells.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:30 AM   #334
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I know there's Law Enforcement AND Military Vets (me) on here. This can go on forever. But, go and shoot both guns. See what YOU like and are comfortable with. We keep guns throughout my home loaded at all times. I have no kids and the only guns my wife can't shoot stay unloaded, except the Mossberg 590SP. That one's got over 50 bucks of ammo in it. It holds 9, and I use some specialty ammo. Learn how to load the gun in the dark. Use and shoot the gun often, and you will/can protect your family with either weapon. My side of the bed has the Kimber Ultra Carry .45 and my wife's got the Beretta 9. It' only took a couple of days to get her to grab the gun, slam in a 15rd clip, and chamber one in the dark. She now sleeps comfortably when I'm not home.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:32 AM   #335
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Oh, and go get a concealed carry permit. These places offer training beyond the carry class that may help you if you have no Law Enforcement or Military training.
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:56 AM   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandBanana View Post
Federal 00 buckshot has a tight group at 20yards(60feet), and is what most LE uses(well at least my dept). I wouldn't use it for home defense though.

Also if you are worried about the spread, you can apply a full choke. If you are worried about overpenetration, use lower power shells.
full choke is gonna make the pattern tighter

and if we're talking about the same federal 00buck flite control, yeah that stuff is awesome, i've got about 200rds of it and for outside you're house there'd be no better choice out of a 12ga


i think this whole threads drifted wayyyy off topic anyways, the OP wants ONE HANDGUN for multi use, not just for HD, somehow it went into "one shot kills", into the "click click" of a 12ga, and on and on lol
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:55 AM   #337
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.45 or 9mm

9mm, less recoil means easier follow up shots plus you can get them with 10, 12, 15, 17 round mags -- you'll stop em with this.

Ammo is cheaper for more practice.

If you like .45 and handle it well then do it, they do have more stopping power.

I have a Stoeger Cougar 9mm for home and a Ruger SR9c 9mm for carry and happy with them.
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:09 PM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGrimm View Post

NOW, if I was the homeowner and I KNEW the perp had a gun, then yes my chamber would already be loaded.


What are you going to do? Frisk them as they come through the window?
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:29 PM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandBanana View Post
Wow, lots of misinformation on this thread.

First things first. Buy a shotgun for your home defense. It's $200 and will give you the exact knock down power you need for home defense.

For a plinking handgun, buy a cheap 9mm that you find comfortable.

This will cost you way less than a cheap 1911, and will cost less than a medium to higher end 9mm, while giving you exactly what you need.

As far as knock down power and the .45 myths, well it's all subjective. You can shoot a man in the arm with a .50cal all day and it won't kill him till he finally bleeds out. Caliber is not the only consideration for self defense. Your ability to fire the round comfortably and accurately are what counts.

I personally go with .40s&w, because it's a combination of power, ease of shooting, and capacity. The more rounds you carry, the more able you are to defend against multiple attackers without having to reload.

No matter how bad ass your bullet is (hydroshocks, black talons, ranger sxt's, TAPs, whatever), you need to be able to place it on target where it can do some real damage to your attacker. Even if you hit him right in the heart, you still shoot again.

I've seen an inmate who is only in prison because he shot a guy in the back of the head at point blank and the bullet travelled around the skull instead of penetrating it. It made a big enough mess that the inmate thought the guy was dead. Nope, he lived and he sqwaked in court and the inmate is down for a long time. I've seen a guy shot three times in the back with a .223, which does a whole lot of different kind of damage than a handgun and is way more effective at killing than any handgun round on the market. He was walking around a cell that same night he got shot.

Again, whatever you choose, make sure you can shoot it accurately, comfortably, fast, and have enough rounds on you to take care of at least 2 attackers at once.

If you feel comfortable with a 1911, then use it. If you feel comfortable with a glock or xd, or whatever in 9mm, .40, whatver, then use it.

The worst assumption you can make when it comes to self defense is that you will end a fight with one shot. Even if it's only one guy, you shoot him till he stops.

Okay, /end rant.
... ^^^ ... Very well said ... especially about shotgun for H/D, loading in darkness (by feel) and putting "multiple rounds on target" ...
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Old 05-07-2012, 06:51 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by RevAdam View Post
What are you going to do? Frisk them as they come through the window?
Indeed, indeed.

Always much fail in home defense threads.

An unloaded gun is no more useful than an unloaded paintball gun.

ALL of my handguns are fully loaded and chambered 24/7 (except the 1903, I haven't had a chance to test fire it yet, last time it was fired was 50+ years ago).
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