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Old 12-11-2008, 01:32 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonjay View Post
If you legalized all drugs and dispensed them with a prescription, slowly weaning them off the drug. Vancouver has a safe injection site, they provide needles and a safe place to "shoot up". It has helped many people to kick the addiction and get back on with living life. There is evidence that it is cheaper to treat the addiction and keep them out of the justice system, then it is to put those people in and out of jail. Also you take the drugs away from organized crime and all the violence associated with it.

because soo many people shoot up crack cocaine right?

we have addiction centers here that help people break the habit...but youre not going to break someones habit if they dont want it done
 
Old 12-11-2008, 03:21 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by tigerfan00 View Post
because soo many people shoot up crack cocaine right?

we have addiction centers here that help people break the habit...but youre not going to break someones habit if they dont want it done

to add...i realize that it is in fact possible to shoot up crack cocaine...however most users choose to smoke it...

again...i see the point youre trying to make...however again i think umbrella legalization (like umbrella criminalization of guns) is too far fetched and not feasible...

as it stands now if you go to a hospital or rehab center for a drug addiction to get help you wont be prosecuted for narcotics...people go there when they want to...you cant force rehab...the first thing they'll do when they get released is go get high...

and what about all the abusers of "legal" prescription pain meds/narcotics? should we make it legal to carry around a bottle of vicoden just in case we have that "killer" headache

seriously...these blanket laws arent feasible...

and alcohol...ooh i know...lets start prohibition again...that worked like a fucking charm!

alcohol is legal...yet there are still (and always will be) abusers of the product...alcohol kills more people than i can even imagine every year...but under your thought process...we should legalize driving drunk because then people will magically no longer do it

i see people on an almost DAILY basis that have some sort of drug or alcohol addiction...any one of them that doesnt try to fight me i offer to take to a rehab center or hospital to get them help...they say sure...ride along...and then i'll see them in a couple weeks as drunk or high as ever

a person has to WANT to change in order to change...the government is not going to be able to FORCE someone to rehab their addiction...
 
Old 12-11-2008, 03:34 AM   #103
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to continue...you can thank prohibition for NASCAR...as the beginnings of stock car racing began with guys in down here in the SEUS running moonshine/whiskey from up in the mountains to all over...

point is...if something is illegal and people want it...they'll find a way to have it

now that alcohol is legal again...people STILL drink moonshine and people still commit crimes related to alcohol (ie DUI/manslaughter/etc)

umbrella or blanket legislation is NOT the answer

the answer is to figure out a way to convince society that they are responsible for their own actions and re-teach them how to hold the rest of society with a higher regard than they do now...we are a very selfish money/power driven society and too many people are willing to do whatever it takes to get this money/power

we as a society think we are no longer responsible for our own actions...we blame the media and video games for fights and shootings at school...we blame advertisements for mcdonalds making you fat or making your kid smoke...

We need to "man-up" grow a sack...fill it with some balls...whatever you want to call it...and take personal responsibility for our actions...and parents need to take responsibility for their kids...spend some time with them...teach them right and wrong and how to deal with problems in life...

i cant tell you how many times ive sat in court and heard a judge ask a defendant why he did something and his/her reply was see what had happened was so and so told me this...or so and so made me do this...or any number of other statements that IMMEDIATELY place the blame of their actions on another party.

/rant
 
Old 12-11-2008, 03:38 AM   #104
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more thoughts

should we open up speeding to the blanket de-criminalization as well? i mena people already do it all the time around here...might as well make it illegal...

but then...when that speeding driver comes up over the hill and smashes into the back of a stopped automobile and kills a family...what justice will we be able to get...speeding is no longer illegal
 
Old 12-11-2008, 05:05 AM   #105
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I have just moved back to America with my Wife after 6 years in the UK, and I must say that the comments on gun crime decreasing are not necessarily true. over the last two years there have been many gun related deaths in those two years then there were the 4 years previously.
As for gun control being a positive, to some degree i think it does have its merits. Like why do you need to own an AK47? (apart from your friends thinking you are cool) I own hand guns, but do not see the point in owning AK's and M1's etc.In othere ways, i agree with a previous poster who said banning guns would increase homicide with other weapons. Part of the reason we decided to leave the UK (London) was the knife crime.(Apart form the freexing ass weather!) Youths are especially prone to carrying knives, and last year we had record numbers of youths being killed with knives. Unfortunately it is not the weapons that do the killing. I blame it on the culture we have allowed to develop in the western world over the last 2 generations. Just my two cents...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianr View Post
Dont forget that fact that my grandfather (and yours too most likely) helped give the world FREEDOM.
Just to show i am not taking this thread as seriously as some, and to ruffle some feathers further, i thought i would point out that the USA did not win WWII single handedly and that the USA were the latecomers...though i am sure the other allied's appreciated the late surge in support!
U.S. (after 1941), Great Britain (UK), Russia, Canada, China (Nationalist Forces), Australia, India, South Africa and New Zealand were Allies

Look, Canada does have a military!

We should berate the neutralsn not our allies...

Belgium (May 10 1940-invaded)
Brazil
Greece (October 28 1940 invaded)
Holland (May 10, 1940-invaded)
Luxembourg (invaded 1940)
Norway (April 9, 1940 - invaded)
Poland (September 1, 1939- invaded) Yugoslavia

I know i am new here, but this thread has intrigued me in that it started as an interesting debate about gun control and spawned into insults and insinuations. I thought we were here to share the things we had in common. Next we will be arguing about religion!
 
Old 12-11-2008, 05:53 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadpants View Post
Just to show i am not taking this thread as seriously as some, and to ruffle some feathers further, i thought i would point out that the USA did not win WWII single handedly and that the USA were the latecomers...though i am sure the other allied's appreciated the late surge in support!
U.S. (after 1941), Great Britain (UK), Russia, Canada, China (Nationalist Forces), Australia, India, South Africa and New Zealand were Allies

Look, Canada does have a military!

We should berate the neutralsn not our allies...

Belgium (May 10 1940-invaded)
Brazil
Greece (October 28 1940 invaded)
Holland (May 10, 1940-invaded)
Luxembourg (invaded 1940)
Norway (April 9, 1940 - invaded)
Poland (September 1, 1939- invaded) Yugoslavia

Again, thats why I included the "and your grandfather too most likely".

I dont need a history lesson, if its anyone giving a history lesson it should be me.

You forget the fact that the US was supplying the British and the Russians well before our offical involvement in 1941, with aircraft and ships most noteably.

I dont appreciate your snide comment, "I'm sure they appreciated the late surge in support".

The world would have eaten a big pile of shit if it wasnt for the Amerian war machine in the European theatre, and Trumans moxy enough to use the bomb in the Pacific.

I hear people talk about "Oh, the poor Japanese people, how could the US drop such a bomb on them"?

The world forgets that in 1931 (Mukden incident, early Sino-Japanese war) the Japanese invaded Manchuria China and raped & ruthlessly murdered millions of men, women and children of all ages. Later in 1937, during the Nanking massacre, the Japs killed and raped another 300,000.

Who were the real "war mongers"?

How dare anyone in the world call the US a "war monger".
 
Old 12-11-2008, 06:06 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadpants View Post
Like why do you need to own an AK47? (apart from your friends thinking you are cool) I own hand guns, but do not see the point in owning AK's and M1's etc.

Unfortunately it is not the weapons that do the killing. I blame it on the culture we have allowed to develop in the western world over the last 2 generations. Just my two cents...



Just to show i am not taking this thread as seriously as some, and to ruffle some feathers further, i thought i would point out that the USA did not win WWII single handedly and that the USA were the latecomers...though i am sure the other allied's appreciated the late surge in support!
U.S. (after 1941), Great Britain (UK), Russia, Canada, China (Nationalist Forces), Australia, India, South Africa and New Zealand were Allies

Look, Canada does have a military!

We should berate the neutralsn not our allies...

Belgium (May 10 1940-invaded)
Brazil
Greece (October 28 1940 invaded)
Holland (May 10, 1940-invaded)
Luxembourg (invaded 1940)
Norway (April 9, 1940 - invaded)
Poland (September 1, 1939- invaded) Yugoslavia

I know i am new here, but this thread has intrigued me in that it started as an interesting debate about gun control and spawned into insults and insinuations. I thought we were here to share the things we had in common. Next we will be arguing about religion!
I have a far healthier respect for the Canadian military now that my husband and older son have done some research on WWII as well. Not that the state of the Canadian military has anything to do with gun control laws.

One of the problems with the gun control argument is that both sides base that argument on statistics. Statistics can be usedful in some situations, but overall are far too easy to manipulate to a particular end. The "for control side" can come up with plenty of statistics that that gun control works, and the "against control" side can come up with an equal number of statistics that say that it does not. Statistics, then, are not particularly useful in this case. Another problem is that we don't know how to quantify the argument without satistics.

The bottom line for me is that I don't trust the government enough to give up my guns. We are all only human, and greed and the desire for power are great motivators in the world. I also feel that however guns are aquired by criminals, they will be aquired somehow. Taking away the law-abiding citizens right to bear arms will not effect whether or not criminals have them. Education and respect for the gun would go a lot further in the control of accidents than adding more laws to an already-law-bloated legal system. I'll reference idiots firing into the air--perhaps if someone had explained the laws of gravity, there would be less of a problem here. Or perhaps if someone had locked up the guns upon the cracking of the first beer, these people would not have forgotten the laws of gravity and basic responsible gun ownership. That last, I think, is the real key. Education on basic responsible gun ownership would be far more effective than more useless laws.

In answer to why one would need an AK-47, there may be no need at the present time, but they sure are fun!
 
Old 12-11-2008, 06:10 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianr View Post
Again, thats why I included the "and your grandfather too most likely".

I dont need a history lesson, if its anyone giving a history lesson it should be me.

You forget the fact that the US was supplying the British and the Russians well before our offical involvement in 1941, with aircraft and ships most noteably.

I dont appreciate your snide comment, "I'm sure they appreciated the late surge in support".

The world would have eaten a big pile of shit if it wasnt for the Amerian war machine in the European theatre, and Trumans moxy enough to use the bomb in the Pacific.

I hear people talk about "Oh, the poor Japanese people, how could the US drop such a bomb on them"?

The world forgets that in 1931 (Mukden incident, early Sino-Japanese war) the Japanese invaded Manchuria China and raped & ruthlessly murdered millions of men, women and children of all ages. Later in 1937, during the Nanking massacre, the Japs killed and raped another 300,000.

Who were the real "war mongers"?

How dare anyone in the world call the US a "war monger".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxymar00n
We had the religion thread 3 months ago and politics up to and after the election. We need something to berate each other about.

I'm curious, MadPants. Are you saying the Poles didn't fight in WW2? True, they were ill-prepared for the blitz, but they did fight with primitive weaponry until they were beat (unlike France). They landed on Normandy, operated a Navy and Air Force, and were credited with cracking the German Enigma machine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_...o_World_War_II

I've got some Polish heritage and can crack a polack joke like the best of them, but to belittle their efforts in the war would differ from recorded history.
First of all, I never berated USA involvement in WWII. Just stating some facts. Mr Roosevelt was the mind behind the Normandy Invasion and we would probably have failed without that. Please dont read my comments as an attacking platform..

Oxymar00n,
I never said the Polish were not involved in WWII? If you read my statement, they were neutral till they were invaded. Sorry that you misunderstood. In fact, the Polish have a great history in WWII, i especially admire there paratrooper commando forces which were based out of England.

I didn't mean to bump heads with anyone, and i struggle to understand why emotions are running so high?
 
Old 12-11-2008, 06:15 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charli View Post
I have a far healthier respect for the Canadian military now that my husband and older son have done some research on WWII as well. Not that the state of the Canadian military has anything to do with gun control laws.

One of the problems with the gun control argument is that both sides base that argument on statistics. Statistics can be usedful in some situations, but overall are far too easy to manipulate to a particular end. The "for control side" can come up with plenty of statistics that that gun control works, and the "against control" side can come up with an equal number of statistics that say that it does not. Statistics, then, are not particularly useful in this case. Another problem is that we don't know how to quantify the argument without satistics.

The bottom line for me is that I don't trust the government enough to give up my guns. We are all only human, and greed and the desire for power are great motivators in the world. I also feel that however guns are aquired by criminals, they will be aquired somehow. Taking away the law-abiding citizens right to bear arms will not effect whether or not criminals have them. Education and respect for the gun would go a lot further in the control of accidents than adding more laws to an already-law-bloated legal system. I'll reference idiots firing into the air--perhaps if someone had explained the laws of gravity, there would be less of a problem here. Or perhaps if someone had locked up the guns upon the cracking of the first beer, these people would not have forgotten the laws of gravity and basic responsible gun ownership. That last, I think, is the real key. Education on basic responsible gun ownership would be far more effective than more useless laws.
Well said, and good points!
 
Old 12-11-2008, 06:17 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxymar00n View Post
Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification.

You DID forget France in the list of berateable countries though...
HaHa, it goes without saying in all fairness..
 
Old 12-11-2008, 06:17 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadpants View Post
First of all, I never berated USA involvement in WWII. Just stating some facts. Mr Roosevelt was the mind behind the Normandy Invasion and we would probably have failed without that. Please dont read my comments as an attacking platform..

Oxymar00n,
I never said the Polish were not involved in WWII? If you read my statement, they were neutral till they were invaded. Sorry that you misunderstood. In fact, the Polish have a great history in WWII, i especially admire there paratrooper commando forces which were based out of England.

I didn't mean to bump heads with anyone, and i struggle to understand why emotions are running so high?

I just found a hint of snideness in "I'm sure they appreciated the late surge of support".

Since a mans word is all he has beyond his human right for survival, I'll say ok. I understand you did not mean for that to be taking as it was. My mistake.
 
Old 12-11-2008, 06:19 AM   #113
go shit in your hat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxymar00n View Post
Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification.

You DID forget France in the list of berateable countries though...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadpants View Post
HaHa, it goes without saying in all fairness..

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianr View Post
you forgot to mention how the french chose to drink champange rather then fight the Nazi's. Let them march right into Paris...

Rich, we already covered that.
 
Old 12-11-2008, 06:28 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charli View Post
I have a far healthier respect for the Canadian military now that my husband and older son have done some research on WWII as well. Not that the state of the Canadian military has anything to do with gun control laws.

One of the problems with the gun control argument is that both sides base that argument on statistics. Statistics can be usedful in some situations, but overall are far too easy to manipulate to a particular end. The "for control side" can come up with plenty of statistics that that gun control works, and the "against control" side can come up with an equal number of statistics that say that it does not. Statistics, then, are not particularly useful in this case. Another problem is that we don't know how to quantify the argument without satistics.

The bottom line for me is that I don't trust the government enough to give up my guns. We are all only human, and greed and the desire for power are great motivators in the world. I also feel that however guns are aquired by criminals, they will be aquired somehow. Taking away the law-abiding citizens right to bear arms will not effect whether or not criminals have them. Education and respect for the gun would go a lot further in the control of accidents than adding more laws to an already-law-bloated legal system. I'll reference idiots firing into the air--perhaps if someone had explained the laws of gravity, there would be less of a problem here. Or perhaps if someone had locked up the guns upon the cracking of the first beer, these people would not have forgotten the laws of gravity and basic responsible gun ownership. That last, I think, is the real key. Education on basic responsible gun ownership would be far more effective than more useless laws.

In answer to why one would need an AK-47, there may be no need at the present time, but they sure are fun!



well said...well said
 
Old 12-11-2008, 07:07 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charli View Post
I have a far healthier respect for the Canadian military now that my husband and older son have done some research on WWII as well. Not that the state of the Canadian military has anything to do with gun control laws.

One of the problems with the gun control argument is that both sides base that argument on statistics. Statistics can be usedful in some situations, but overall are far too easy to manipulate to a particular end. The "for control side" can come up with plenty of statistics that that gun control works, and the "against control" side can come up with an equal number of statistics that say that it does not. Statistics, then, are not particularly useful in this case. Another problem is that we don't know how to quantify the argument without satistics.

The bottom line for me is that I don't trust the government enough to give up my guns. We are all only human, and greed and the desire for power are great motivators in the world. I also feel that however guns are aquired by criminals, they will be aquired somehow. Taking away the law-abiding citizens right to bear arms will not effect whether or not criminals have them. Education and respect for the gun would go a lot further in the control of accidents than adding more laws to an already-law-bloated legal system. I'll reference idiots firing into the air--perhaps if someone had explained the laws of gravity, there would be less of a problem here. Or perhaps if someone had locked up the guns upon the cracking of the first beer, these people would not have forgotten the laws of gravity and basic responsible gun ownership. That last, I think, is the real key. Education on basic responsible gun ownership would be far more effective than more useless laws.

In answer to why one would need an AK-47, there may be no need at the present time, but they sure are fun!
I think this post summarizes the end of this thread. We have covered the subject well enough. Thread Closed.
 
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