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Old 01-17-2009, 07:21 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratton View Post
So What do you know about the .357 in auto. I guess they shrunk down the mag to more like ACP so its a lot shorter. how is that for knock down power?If I was to buy a pistol tomorrow I would want an auto but with a shit load of power. I wouldnt mind carrying it when I am hiking in bear country. I did see the tarus ,thats a .45 colt and also a .410 shotgun. I think its a 5 shot revolver. Any other idea's
That's the Taurus Judge. Fires .45Long Colt or .410.

.357 is proven statistically as the best stopper if you do your research. Plus you can fire .38's out of it for practice, for cheap and for a GF who can't take the .357 reciol.
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:26 PM   #22
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i always thought that was the whole point of buying a gun so the ol lady couldnt shot it then, and when she sees your gun so much and shooting shell want one
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:31 PM   #23
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Yeah I have a ruger GP100 in .357 I love the power of it. I use the WinClean which must be loaded a little hotter. Cause it blows off any papers on my bench when I shoot it. And I love having a choice with the cheaper 38 special ammo. I was just wondering how the semiauot version of this is.
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Old 01-17-2009, 08:36 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildjerseyfirefighter View Post
i like the idea of either a .40 or .45..hmmmm
.45 = bad idea for first handgun. ask me how i know
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Old 01-17-2009, 08:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratton View Post
OK I have a question about glocks. I know they are carried by law enforcement. But I have heard a lot of bad things about them. I just took a NRA course for handguns. I didnt need to but thought why not. Anyways.... the instructor bashed glocks the whole time. He owns a couple along with a million other handguns that he brought in for the class. He claims that they are throw away guns. And that the polymer doesnt last like a good quailty gun. I know that they are not considered a highly accurate handgun. But has anyone else heard negative things about them. I would like to buy one someday but I dont wanna spend a lot if it is only trendy to do so. My friend has one but he can be bias, seeing how you would never want to diss a expensive gun that you bought.
It's mainly just personal preference. There is no doubting that Glock makes a fine weapon. It's accurate and it is extremely reliable. However, some people just don't care for them for whatever reason. I respect Glock owners and their choice of weapon, but I myself am not a fan. I don't care for the grip angle and I don't really do striker-fired handguns...I like a hammer and I like having the option of double or single action.

And as far as what makes a glock accurate (and part of what makes it so reliable); it's the barrel. Glock barrels have what is called hexagonal rifling (it's not really rifling) which has proven to not only be extremely accurate, but less prone to fouling than traditional rifling lands and grooves.

So, with that knowledge, unless you just fall in love with a glock in your hand, you do have options in finding these features (the good things about Glock) on other weapons.

For instance, the hexagonal barrel design is also found on HK handguns. HK handguns use the modified Browning locking system (found on the Browning HP 9mm...considered one of the most reliable repeating handguns ever). But the big thing about HK over Glock (to me) is the availability of a weapon with a de-cocker and no saftey.

If it's the small size or the striker-fire design that you like, the Springfield XD series and all Kahr arms are striker-fired, but their smaller, compact guns feel much different in the hand than a glock does.

And if the argument is about how a glock will shoot while it's full of hardened cement and cryogenically frozen while buried in sand 500 feet under water in a raging river during a full-moon after it was dropped from a helicopter, I always ask people when exactly they plan to be in that type of situation where they would need to expend hundreds of rounds with a dirty handgun as their primary defense and not a rifle in such a pressing situation. If you carry a dirty weapon, and you rely on it, you deserve what you get when you have to use it.

Now, as far as the instructor of your class, the only thing I can think of that would have him so down on glocks would be that there is no second strike capability on a bad round or bad strike with a striker-fired weapon. Not saying Glocks are prone to misfire, just that in the event of a bad strike or a bad round, you have no choice but to chamber a new round to get a shot off. With a hammer-fired weapon, you have the option of trying to fire the bad round again by cocking the hammer with your thumb. This practice wouldn't be (and isn't) advisable (or even an issue, for that matter) in an altercation unless your attacker occupies your free hand, rendering the striker-fired weapon useless on a misfire.
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Old 01-17-2009, 08:44 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Brasky View Post
It's mainly just personal preference. There is no doubting that Glock makes a fine weapon. It's accurate and it is extremely reliable. However, some people just don't care for them for whatever reason. I respect Glock owners and their choice of weapon, but I myself am not a fan. I don't care for the grip angle and I don't really do striker-fired handguns...I like a hammer and I like having the option of double or single action.

And as far as what makes a glock accurate (and part of what makes it so reliable); it's the barrel. Glock barrels have what is called hexagonal rifling (it's not really rifling) which has proven to not only be extremely accurate, but less prone to fouling than traditional rifling lands and grooves.

So, with that knowledge, unless you just fall in love with a glock in your hand, you do have options in finding these features (the good things about Glock) on other weapons.

For instance, the hexagonal barrel design is also found on HK handguns. HK handguns use the modified Browning locking system (found on the Browning HP 9mm...considered one of the most reliable repeating handguns ever). But the big thing about HK over Glock (to me) is the availability of a weapon with a de-cocker and no saftey.

If it's the small size or the striker-fire design that you like, the Springfield XD series and all Kahr arms are striker-fired, but their smaller, compact guns feel much different in the hand than a glock does.

And if the argument is about how a glock will shoot while it's full of hardened cement and cryogenically frozen while buried in sand 500 feet under water in a raging river during a full-moon after it was dropped from a helicopter, I always ask people when exactly they plan to be in that type of situation where they would need to expend hundreds of rounds with a dirty handgun as their primary defense and not a rifle in such a pressing situation. If you carry a dirty weapon, and you rely on it, you deserve what you get when you have to use it.

Now, as far as the instructor of your class, the only thing I can think of that would have him so down on glocks would be that there is no second strike capability on a bad round or bad strike with a striker-fired weapon. Not saying Glocks are prone to misfire, just that in the event of a bad strike or a bad round, you have no choice but to chamber a new round to get a shot off. With a hammer-fired weapon, you have the option of trying to fire the bad round again by cocking the hammer with your thumb. This wouldn't be advisable (or even an issue, for that matter) in an altercation unless your attacker occupies your free hand, rendering the striker-fired weapon useless on a misfire.
+1

Plus a lot of people are biased about their guns. I don't like the grip angle either, so I had mine recountoured to be like the angle of the 1911.

But, they're proven and have a definite track record.

Some other negs about a Glock is the unsupported chamber that may cause KB's. But this is also the reason they're reliable. Loose, like an AK.

Anyway, you'd do with with what you're good at and know well.
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Old 01-17-2009, 08:52 PM   #27
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i personally LOVE Glocks...they fit my hand incredibly well...i actually sold an XD to purchase another Glock...i bought the XD on several peoples recommendations but after 1 trip to the range...could tell i wasnt going to like it...packed it up...resold it for the same amount i bought it for (i bought it used) and bought my G27...

im with whoever said to go hold a bunch and dont worry about a name or what it looks like or what "options" it has added...find the gun that fits you best FIRST
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:01 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerfan00 View Post
i personally LOVE Glocks...they fit my hand incredibly well...i actually sold an XD to purchase another Glock...i bought the XD on several peoples recommendations but after 1 trip to the range...could tell i wasnt going to like it...packed it up...resold it for the same amount i bought it for (i bought it used) and bought my G27...

im with whoever said to go hold a bunch and dont worry about a name or what it looks like or what "options" it has added...find the gun that fits you best FIRST
Agreed on both accounts.

I purchased an XD and found my accuracy affected by (what I considered to be) a clunky trigger. Felt really good in the hand, though.
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:06 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Brasky View Post
Agreed on both accounts.

I purchased an XD and found my accuracy affected by (what I considered to be) a clunky trigger. Felt really good in the hand, though.

i think it helps that my handgun knowledge is somewhat limited because the first one i ever held was for work...

regardless...i fell in love with Glocks the day i was issued mine...and for those people that say they arent reliable or whatnot...

the majority of Law Enforcement Agencies in this country cant be wrong...they wouldnt issue their officers unreliable weapons...can you imagine how much the family of a killed LEO would sue if it was found out his weapon FTF during a shootout
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:22 PM   #30
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To add a few thing: The chamber in a Glock IS supported. The KB's reported have been found to be caused by the use of lead bullits, creating a build up of lead in the chamber area, Glocks have a sharp transition between the chamber and the rifling, and when lead bullits are used, this area is prone to lead build up resulting in a failure to return to battery, thus leaveing the round unsuported and posible case failure. Also, the rifling is "Polygonal", as opposed to "Hexagonal". ;-)
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:27 PM   #31
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The H&K USP Compact 40 was about $850.00. That's for the SS though. I think you could get the straight polymer for cheaper. I've also fired a Springfield XD 40 and a Sig P229. The XD was ok. Not the most comfortable and I had a hard time with accuracy. The Sig was very smooth, comfortable, and no problems hitting the target. If I could talk the boss lady into it I would consider a Sig for my next purchase. I agree with most folks here that you have to be the first safety. That, and practice. I try and work on drawing with my finger on the guard, turning safety off, fire, finger back on the guard, safety on, then re-holstering. Practice, practice, practice. It also helps to have friends who are knowledgable to learn from.
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:31 PM   #32
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I was going through the Mesa SWAT school a few years back, we were doing dynamic entries via rappel and I watched a Tempe PD guy drop his Glock out of his thigh holster from four stories up. The gun bounced three times off the concrete. The guy rappelled down, picked it up, racked it a couple of times and holstered it. No problem, No broken polymer.
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:34 PM   #33
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My dream side arm would be the 40 cal Sig 229 SAS/DAK. It is a honed down version of the 229, no sharp edges, it ensures that the weapon will not snag on anything as you draw it. Also it is double action only, no DA/SA to screw up you trigger feel.
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:40 PM   #34
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Any questions regarding the strength of a Glock, read this:
http://www.theprepared.com/index.php...ask=view&id=90
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Old 01-17-2009, 10:09 PM   #35
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I stand corrected on the unsupported chamber as I drew from wealth of knowledge and mis-remembered. ; )

Here's a quote on the chamber.......

Why do Glocks have an unsupported chamber?
First of all "unsupported chamber" is a misleading term: all barrels must support the round in the chamber. Furthermore, all guns that use the modified Browning action have _partially_ supported chambers. In order to make the Glock function reliably with the widest possible selection of ammunition it has a "less supported" chamber than other guns. This is why reloaded ammunition is not recommended in Glock pistols. If you choose to shoot reloads, please consider an after market barrel.
Can I shoot lead bullets in my Glock?
Glock barrels use special polygonal rifling not found in most handguns. This rifling is one of the main reasons Glocks are extremely accurate guns. However, the same rifling can cause a high degree of leading when not using jacketed bullets. In other words some lead from the bullet sticks to the inside of the barrel when it is fired. Too much leading can quickly lead to high pressures which can cause the barrel and/or gun to break or even explode. If you choose to shoot lead in your Glock please get an after market barrel.



Also check the .25 cent trigger job. I polished the interfacing parts and the trigger was much smoother than stock.


Video of just one of many 1000 round turture tests out there. Guide rod melts and falls out. Couple of stove pipe either from limp wristing or bad ammo. But it did it. All malf. cleared with a rack and a shake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyZxQ...eature=related


I wonder if I like the Glock.
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Old 01-17-2009, 10:16 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildjerseyfirefighter View Post
i know this topic has been beaten to death, but im just wondering what would be a good reccomendation for a gun for me?

nothing to carry for a daily weapon
possible self protection(walking in woods,fishing in remote spots)
since i do drive on dark roads alot, and its happened before, if i have a collision with an animal, to put it out of its misery

with that being said, what would be a good recommendation?
My vote is for a Sig P229. That aside, probably a Glock may be the better choice. There are two buttons on a Glock...the one that releases the magazine and the one that makes it go bang. Accuracy speaking Glock is clearly not on top. But then, you aren't trying to win a shooting competition are you? Glocks seem to be built a little "looser" to me and that works two ways. One, accuracy is simply going to suffer. Two, they are going to be less prone to jamming. The way you describe what you want out of it, I would think the latter is more important for you. That being said, I've never jammed any of my Sig Sauer pistols.
You should be able to pick up a Glock for around $500. Sig gets a deserved premium in my opinion of around $700-$800. Caliber speaking...that debate will and has gone on forever. The way you describe your needs, I would say a 9MM would be a good choice. One, the ammo is easy to find at very reasonable prices. Two, 9MM will do what you say you want to do with it. Three, 9MM in the +P loads will get the performance of a more powerful load.
Good luck.
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Old 01-17-2009, 10:29 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpack_5150 View Post
what he said..... Wikipedia agrees too.
Hexagonal
Polygonal
Octagonal

I failed geometry. So, which is it?
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Old 01-17-2009, 10:31 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Brasky View Post
Hexagonal
Polygonal
Octagonal

I failed geometry. So, which is it?
LMAO....Who really cares...its the rounded square type...thing......
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Old 01-17-2009, 10:35 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
LMAO....Who really cares...its the rounded square type...thing......
Actually, both a hexagon and an octagon are polygons.

semantics.
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Old 01-17-2009, 10:41 PM   #40
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Interesting tips video

I was researching the Glock vids when I saw this Todd Jarret Vid.

He's one of a bunch of competitive shooters that's good.

Anyway, some interesting prone pistol tips and rifle tips. Watch till the end of the vid where he fires underneath his truck a la North Hollywood shootout style, when the PD came in and skipped bullets at the shooter's ankle under his car..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic826...eature=related
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