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Old 01-08-2013, 11:36 AM   #21
Yukon Cornelius
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if you like the 870 id suggest a NEF Pardner Pump its a knock off and way cheaper...add a shorter barrel(or saw yours down to 18.5 inches) and add an adjustable stock
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:39 AM   #22
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Shooting an intruder with non-lethal ammo is a bad idea. Say you shoot them with non-lethal, and then accidently shoot them again with the buck shot and they die. At the time you shot them with the non-lethal round, one could argue that the threat was eliminated, and any consecutive shots would be unwarranted. Not smart. Either use all buckshot or all non-lethal.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:42 AM   #23
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Love my 870 pump, I have the express in all synthetic black, good shotgun, shot a lot of clays, turkey and a few pheasant with it, I've moved on to another shotgun for clays but I still love my 870!
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:47 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmodel65 View Post
if you like the 870 id suggest a NEF Pardner Pump its a knock off and way cheaper...add a shorter barrel(or saw yours down to 18.5 inches) and add an adjustable stock
Meh, get the Remington 870 or the Mossberg 500, take care of them and you'll be passing them along to your kids and grandkids one day. Get some cheap knock off that you can't get parts for in 5 years, good luck... You get what you pay for, the 870 and 500 are good deals for the money, I wouldn't bother with the cheap knock offs.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:47 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmodel65 View Post
if you like the 870 id suggest a NEF Pardner Pump its a knock off and way cheaper...add a shorter barrel(or saw yours down to 18.5 inches) and add an adjustable stock
^This. I bought mine at Walmart for 190 out the door. The only Chinese thing I'm proud to own. Alot of parts are interchangeable with the 870 since the NEF is such a good knock off.

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Originally Posted by Pugga View Post
Meh, get the Remington 870 or the Mossberg 500, take care of them and you'll be passing them along to your kids and grandkids one day. Get some cheap knock off that you can't get parts for in 5 years, good luck... You get what you pay for, the 870 and 500 are good deals for the money, I wouldn't bother with the cheap knock offs.
I thought the same thing but after I got a look at one, then had the chance to shoot it my opinion changed. Very solid and well built. For home defense it will more than get the done. Remington and H&R are also owned by the same company thus the blatant copying. So really your just buying a spartan 870.

http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/pardnerpump.asp
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:04 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by EVErsionDesigns View Post
I think this just sealed the deal for me.
I'm also in the market for my first shot gun and I have pretty much rounded it down to a Remington 870. But when it came to 12ga or 20ga I didn't know. I wanted a 12 because that's what everyone has. It seems like the traditional thing to do. When you buy a shotgun, you buy a 12ga. But when I went around to my local sporting goods stores there is absolutely NOTHING in regards to 12ga shot but there was a shitload of 20ga laying around. So I started asking questions. Everyone I talked to said for what I want to do with a shotgun(skeet shoot and eventually start hunting dove/quail/smaller game) a 20ga will get the job done. And as for home defense a 20ga is still going to kill someone deader than shit, if it ever came down to that. The obvious advantage of the 12ga is that it has more "kick" behind it and a wider spread of shot. So as for duck and waterfowl, birds that tend to fly a little higher and are tougher you might be at a disadvantage with a 20ga.

I'm assuming everyone is having the same problems with limited ammo around the country?
There is not a difference in the spread of a 12 vs 20, that's dictated by the choke(the end of the barrel that allows the pellets to spread when they leave the barrel).
The difference is the number of pellets in the pattern.
I shoot pheasants wth 20ga 3" magnum loads and they carry 1 1/4 ounces of shot, the same as Remington Express Long Rang 12ga shells, which I thought were heavy when I used them.
No difference, except over a pound of weight of the gun, which makes a big difference in the field.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:47 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradleyScottETC View Post
Shooting an intruder with non-lethal ammo is a bad idea. Say you shoot them with non-lethal, and then accidently shoot them again with the buck shot and they die. At the time you shot them with the non-lethal round, one could argue that the threat was eliminated, and any consecutive shots would be unwarranted. Not smart. Either use all buckshot or all non-lethal.
This is a valid concern as I said in my previous post each state is different, if you feel threatened enough to shoot then non lethal is in my "personal opinion" not an option you shoot lethal rounds. Now as to what they are you have to look at alot of things over penetration being the biggest when talking about in your own home. Years ago before frangible ammo http://www.ebr-inc.net/12gaEntry.html entry teams used #6 shot as in the typical range found in a home it would perform well. Now there are many choices in ammo 00,000,0000 etc perform well. However, you may go through the person or miss ( Yes it is possible to miss with a shotgun) and go through a wall and hit someone else who belongs there or outside just walking by. I will not argue the pros and cons here, my "personal 12ga and both my daughters are loaded with # 6 3 ea Frangible 3 ea. Number 6 will go through walls if your close enough as unlike the movies the spread of a shortened to min legal length shot gun indoors is not much more then 2". You can pattern your weapon once you own it and you will find this out for yourself as they are all a little different depending on chokes etc.


Cypherian

Get a good sized pup or two and you may never have to even rack the round in :}. 42 ivories x 2 are a great to keep the ahh undesirables out.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:07 PM   #28
Yukon Cornelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugga View Post
Meh, get the Remington 870 or the Mossberg 500, take care of them and you'll be passing them along to your kids and grandkids one day. Get some cheap knock off that you can't get parts for in 5 years, good luck... You get what you pay for, the 870 and 500 are good deals for the money, I wouldn't bother with the cheap knock offs.


they are a mirror image of the 870....there is only like 1 or 2 parts that dont interchange iirc...and i believe Remington owns H&R now
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:09 PM   #29
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^ are you sure? and im not talking looks... metals same quality? same production methods... ext.. ?? these things matter in a gun.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:40 PM   #30
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Don't give up here just yet
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Thanks for all the responses everyone!!!!

Most importantly, I'm not rushing into this one. Take my time, learn, gather info/opinions and make a purchase when the time (and money) is right.

Just BS'd for minute with a co-worker who has 10+ guns and his CCW. His biggest advice was to hold off, save a little more and buy new. Said he had never had a "used" gun that he liked.

I saw some comments on the .12 vs .20 and my co-worker metioned that even a .20 would be good for home type stuff. I'm stout in the shoulder area, so I'm not to concered about kickback. Don't know if I could get the wife to shoot it, I would try like hell to at least get her familiar with it. I think she would warm up over time.

I get the feeling that it's not necessarily what kind of gun of you have (quality product/name helps) but maybe a little more how it's used and ammo type used.

I'm in a major city so there are plenty of retail type stores that were mentioned earlier. There is...Dicks, Sports Authority, Gander Mtn, Cabela's.

Def. going to go to a store, sounds like good gun comfort is important. Gun is not to bulky, or to heavy. Can't do that stuff online.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:42 PM   #31
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rem 870 express with an 18 inch barrel is around 300. nice and short for your enviornment.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:20 PM   #33
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Don't give up here just yet
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I'll have to get out and look around some of the SG stores on one of my next days off. There is a range close to the house that I think may be a good spot to hit up too.

Now to see what other tomfoolery TW is up to...
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:30 PM   #34
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these are good guns for the money, they have a protecter model at the bottom of the page.
these are basically remington 870's, the company is owned by remington, and all parts except the barrels are interchangeable between this and the 870.

if you have a academy sports around they have these on sale for 150 (?).

http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/pardnerpump.asp

EDIT: somebody beat me to it.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:39 PM   #35
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Don't give up here just yet
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^ Looks pretty nice. No Academy Sports close to here but I'll take that name down!!!
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:55 PM   #36
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^ Looks pretty nice. No Academy Sports close to here but I'll take that name down!!!

thy sell H&R at walmarts...
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:59 PM   #37
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:15 PM   #38
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how did i know you would be in here?


I'm surprised it took you this long to show up!
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:15 PM   #39
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I prefer the Mossberg 500 to the Remington 870 because of the Mossberg's safety location. They are both well made & reliable shotguns. Both can be found on sale, most of the time, at larger sporting good stores and both can be had with an extra 18" barrel for home defense use. You won't go wrong with either.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:23 PM   #40
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I prefer the Mossberg 500 to the Remington 870 because of the Mossberg's safety location. They are both well made & reliable shotguns. Both can be found on sale, most of the time, at larger sporting good stores and both can be had with an extra 18" barrel for home defense use. You won't go wrong with either.

I agree with the saftey location on the Mossberg it's very conveinent. I've got the $200 base model wood stock 28" barrel 500. Ducks, geese, doves, deer, skeet, squirrel you name it, never let me down in the 7yrs i've had it. It's kept up with the $1000 benelli's just fine.
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