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Vet, Arrested for "Rudely Displaying Rifle", Gets Surprise from Black Rain Ordnance!

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Old 05-05-2013, 07:54 AM   #62
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The right to bear arms is a human right. It is a God given right, if you believe in God. Its not something to be removed, even if 99% of the populace wants it to be. That is an infringement on individual liberty and the core of this country's reason for existing. The issue is the ass hat seems to think he cannot be temporarily disarmed by police for officer safety. It does not matter HOW it was done, he is required to submit to the officer's orders. You can say you will comply all you want, but as soon as you resist, overwhelming force will be used to gain control. The situation was handled pretty well and the only thing I see wrong is this "rudely displaying" comment by the officer and the retention of the firearms for non evidenciary purposes.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 08:02 AM   #63
abides.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevL View Post
The right to bear arms is a human right. It is a God given right, if you believe in God. Its not something to be removed, even if 99% of the populace wants it to be. That is an infringement on individual liberty and the core of this country's reason for existing. The issue is the ass hat seems to think he cannot be temporarily disarmed by police for officer safety. It does not matter HOW it was done, he is required to submit to the officer's orders. You can say you will comply all you want, but as soon as you resist, overwhelming force will be used to gain control. The situation was handled pretty well and the only thing I see wrong is this "rudely displaying" comment by the officer and the retention of the firearms for non evidenciary purposes.
This video is not the complete contact!! The police approached him and, allegedly, without warning, grabbed his gun and started to push him - If no commands or instructions were given then there IS a problem with HOW. The entire time I worked with and owned guns, I've been trained the weapons retention is vital, so grabbing a weapon without warning is NOT the right way to do it (not to mention the mishap potential).
Could he have been more compliant-Yes. Could the cops have been less aggressive-Yea. There is alot that could have gone better.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 08:07 AM   #64
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I would say the odds that it went down the way that he described it are virtually zero. The guys side of the story not only makes no sense but he has already showed he does not know his rights and has lied on the video we do have. I have seen lots of steps cut out of citizen contact but never a zero step contact on a citizen, not even on video.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 08:10 AM   #65
abides.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevL View Post
I would say the odds that it went down the way that he described it are virtually zero. The guys side of the story not only makes no sense but he has already showed he does not know his rights and has lied on the video we do have. I have seen lots of steps cut out of citizen contact but never a zero step contact on a citizen, not even on video.
Then you should ask Infra for his video collection. He got tons of links to improperly executed police contacts. I would say that calling him wrong without all the facts is rushing to judge.

And I'm sure I missed it, but what did he lie about??
 
Old 05-05-2013, 08:12 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by DevL View Post
The right to bear arms is a human right. It is a God given right, if you believe in God.
I remember that one "and god said let there be guns"
 
Old 05-05-2013, 08:13 AM   #67
Not very sporting to fire on an unarmed opponent.
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Originally Posted by 4banger09 View Post
I remember that one "and god said let there be guns"
Charlton Heston said that in The Eleven Commandments
 
Old 05-05-2013, 08:17 AM   #68
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Charlton Heston said that in The Eleven Commandments
Charlton Heston puts the "CH" in Christ.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 08:57 AM   #69
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Remember gay marriage? The gun control issue will go through a similar process and ultimately, things like universal background checks will happen. Its just a matter of time.
Believe it or not, gay marriage and gun control are two sides of the same coin, making for the unlikely "marriage" of two typically philosophically opposed groups.

Due process
Equal Protection under the law.

Both are being used by attorneys from gay rights and gun rights organizations to argue their cases.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 09:30 AM   #70
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'Merica

Wet T-shirt contest in Georgia, yeeeeeeeee haaaaaawwwww...
 
Old 05-05-2013, 09:33 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Brunes View Post
Then you should ask Infra for his video collection. He got tons of links to improperly executed police contacts. I would say that calling him wrong without all the facts is rushing to judge.

And I'm sure I missed it, but what did he lie about??
He said he would comply while resisting. That happens all the time. Half the time people fight you they will say "I'm not resisting!" While full on fighting you. Lying and playing it up for a mic not realizing the camera is on them.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 09:38 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich91710 View Post
Believe it or not, gay marriage and gun control are two sides of the same coin, making for the unlikely "marriage" of two typically philosophically opposed groups.

Due process
Equal Protection under the law.

Both are being used by attorneys from gay rights and gun rights organizations to argue their cases.
I don't like homosexuals. I'm pro gay marriage anyway. People should be allowed to do as they please if it does not directly harm someone else. Even if I don't like it.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 01:28 PM   #73
Don't taze me bro!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich91710 View Post
Believe it or not, gay marriage and gun control are two sides of the same coin, making for the unlikely "marriage" of two typically philosophically opposed groups.

Due process
Equal Protection under the law.

Both are being used by attorneys from gay rights and gun rights organizations to argue their cases.
You would not believe how hard of a point this is to make on firearm forums. It amazes me how many people actively try to deny one group their rights while simultaneously fighting to protect their own rights and don't understand the parallels no matter how well explained to them. No wonder so many 'groups' hate the NRA/Republican/Gun Owner types... we successfully managed to alienate every single group other than us specifically and personally I'm ashamed to have to belong to this group to fight for my 2A rights.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 02:01 PM   #74
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wow! not saying this guy was completely in the right..but police officers here are told to shoot if someone reaches for their weapon...all i have to say is that in messing with that vet the officer is lucky the vet didn't react and shoot out of instinct. they really screwed that guy
 
Old 05-05-2013, 02:11 PM   #75
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This is directed to the leo's here. I am kinda curious where do you draw the line? If you were to come up on this guy walking with his son while carrying what makes it ok for you to disarm, check serial #'s, check Id etc when he is not breaking any law that you know of ?
 
Old 05-05-2013, 05:03 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by dtmccray View Post
This is directed to the leo's here. I am kinda curious where do you draw the line? If you were to come up on this guy walking with his son while carrying what makes it ok for you to disarm, check serial #'s, check Id etc when he is not breaking any law that you know of ?
Not applicable to the video in the OP.
The officer was responding to a 911 MWAG call. That provided PC for the detainment (based on the officer's observations upon arrival).

Each officer on this forum is going to have a different response based on the laws of his state (and the policies of his department).
California has no "stop and identify" law. If an officer doesn't have RS/PC for a detainment, legally, you don't have to give him the time of day.
That may not be the smartest thing to do... but other states, IIRC, such as Arizona, do. If an officer approaches you, you MUST stop and provide identification.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 05:03 PM   #77
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This is a stupid thread because no one one for sure what the guy was doing before the cop showed up and how they interacted before the video rolled. Judging by the video and the way he was acting I'm on the cops side, I would want that guy picked up or at least checked.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 05:21 PM   #78
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NO you don't have to stop and id in AZ.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 05:30 PM   #79
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NO you don't have to stop and id in AZ.
When did that change? I'm glad to see it.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 05:49 PM   #80
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never has been. you need RS/PC like everywhere else
 
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