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Old 05-05-2013, 06:56 PM   #81
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What I am curious about is if someone is not breaking a law what gives anyone the right to check serial numbers,run a check on someone or anything else for that matter. As far as the disarming part I can understand why they would want to take the weapon but if there is no known crime.... Where is the line drawn? When does it become go door to door and check everyone and their property just because there might be something we can make an arrest for?
 
Old 05-05-2013, 07:06 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtmccray View Post
What I am curious about is if someone is not breaking a law what gives anyone the right to check serial numbers,run a check on someone or anything else for that matter. As far as the disarming part I can understand why they would want to take the weapon but if there is no known crime.... Where is the line drawn? When does it become go door to door and check everyone and their property just because there might be something we can make an arrest for?
Legally, a cop is on thin ice if he observes someone participating in legal activity and starts running serial numbers and ID checks.

But as I mentioned before, in this case, and nearly all of these cases where people openly carrying end up on Youtube, the officer is responding to a 911 MWAG call. At that point, they have no idea what they are rolling up on until they get there and get everyone's stories sorted out. They may only observe a man walking down the sidewalk with his son, but the person who called 911 may have seen him brandishing or some other threatening activity.
At the point the 911 call is placed, the responding unit has lawful authority for a detainment and questioning (and the contact has the right to refuse to answer).
 
Old 05-05-2013, 07:10 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtmccray View Post
What I am curious about is if someone is not breaking a law what gives anyone the right to check serial numbers,run a check on someone or anything else for that matter. As far as the disarming part I can understand why they would want to take the weapon but if there is no known crime.... Where is the line drawn? When does it become go door to door and check everyone and their property just because there might be something we can make an arrest for?
As Rich has pointed and as I have pointed out, this is a reported call to dispatch reference a man carrying a weapon, not a cops just going around checking people who have guns and running serial numbers.

There is a difference.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 07:17 PM   #85
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And that doesn't mean the officer in the video handled it properly, nor does it mean that the contact couldn't have handled it better.

WE don't know. We weren't there and did not see the whole thing unfold.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 07:25 PM   #86
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It seems to me the 911 dispatcher would ask the person calling what the man with a gun did. If it's someone not breaking a law then why start a confrontation with them just for the sake of confronting them? Although I do understand if you don't act and they do something stupid you potentially had the opportunity to prevent it. On the other hand if you stop that person take the weapon run the numbers, background etc and don't find anything was that persons rights violated? Personally I have agree with Jefferson when he said "I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude."
 
Old 05-05-2013, 07:37 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodiakToyTRD View Post
As Rich has pointed and as I have pointed out, this is a reported call to dispatch reference a man carrying a weapon, not a cops just going around checking people who have guns and running serial numbers.

There is a difference.
Yes I understand somebody called about it. Just having a discussion about the mwag thing. Don't get your panties in a wad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich91710 View Post
And that doesn't mean the officer in the video handled it properly, nor does it mean that the contact couldn't have handled it better.

WE don't know. We weren't there and did not see the whole thing unfold.
Speaking from my point of view I anyone comes up to me wanting to disarm me for no known reason I would be uncomfortable to say the least no matter what uniform they are wearing. Just because someone has a badge doesn't mean they aren't just as crazy as the next guy. Not trying to be an ass just asking questions. Did the cop handle it badly like you said I don't know I wasn't there. Yeah and I type slow as hell.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 07:37 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtmccray View Post
It seems to me the 911 dispatcher would ask the person calling what the man with a gun did.
The caller would not have called if they did not perceive a threat (and quite often, these MWAG calls come from someone connected to the activist, attempting to make a scene on video).
The calls are frequently "this guy is out here waving a gun around".
Quote:
Although I do understand if you don't act and they do something stupid you potentially had the opportunity to prevent it.
Bingo.
Quote:
On the other hand if you stop that person take the weapon run the numbers, background etc and don't find anything was that persons rights violated?
No. The caller provided PC for the contact.
That's why the system is as it is. If nothing wrong is being done, then both the officer and the contact go on their way. No harm, no foul, and no right violated.

The conduct of the contact can direct how that goes.
Clamming up and saying only "Am I free to go or am I being detained" is a guaranteed car ride to the station.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 09:17 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtmccray View Post
It seems to me the 911 dispatcher would ask the person calling what the man with a gun did
They are not required to. Trust me, I deal with 911 dispatched calls on a daily basis, they get the ABSOLUTE BASIC info and push it to us on our computers, we have to get there and figure it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtmccray View Post
Yes I understand somebody called about it. Just having a discussion about the mwag thing. Don't get your panties in a wad.
My panties don't feel in a twist.
 
Old 05-06-2013, 01:08 AM   #90
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Since open carry of a rifle or handgun is legal in Texas, its wise for the dispatcher to ask the caller what EXACTLY the subject is doing with the firearm.

Many callers are under the false impression that openly carrying a firearm is unlawful.

Unless the caller specifically stated and described UNLAWFUL actions by the subject then arrivng officers have no lawful reason to seize the firearm, ask for ID, detain the subject or run serial numbers.
 
Old 05-06-2013, 05:09 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denali climber View Post
Since open carry of a rifle or handgun is legal in Texas, its wise for the dispatcher to ask the caller what EXACTLY the subject is doing with the firearm.

Many callers are under the false impression that openly carrying a firearm is unlawful.

Unless the caller specifically stated and described UNLAWFUL actions by the subject then arrivng officers have no lawful reason to seize the firearm, ask for ID, detain the subject or run serial numbers.
Open carry of a handgun is illegal in texas
 
Old 05-06-2013, 08:01 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Kmacafee View Post
Ill never understand why gun rights folks defend morons like this. You won't see the NRA take a huge public position on this -- they know it hurts the cause. Beck does it cause he knows his franchise is now limited to wackadoodles and he needs all the publicity he can get. Its like liquor manufacturers defending binge drinking -- its not illegal to binge drink but it shows poor judgement.

As for the right to feel safe, here is the preamble to the Constitution -- "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." Your "right" to carry an AR 15 or any weapon isn't mentioned here at all -- but "domestic tranquility" is. Even the 2nd Amendment does not specifically provide for it and SCOTUS has maintained that reasonable regulations are allowed.

In this case, the guy pushed the bounds of what is common sense. He wanted to get arrested to make a point or he's suffering from PTSD. Either way, the right of the public to feel safe will always trump an individual's rights. The law is pretty sound on that point. He'll get his gun back and he might get an apology but it does nothing to help the cause of establishing common sense guidelines to guns in this country.

Remember gay marriage? The gun control issue will go through a similar process and ultimately, things like universal background checks will happen. Its just a matter of time.
there is no "right to feel safe" enumerated in the constitution, ...and in fact, the bill of rights (amendments 1-10) are the "guarantee" of individual rights... ...not only that, but the bill of rights were crafted from the perspective that the gov't was the threat to individual liberty that needed to be kept at bay...
 
Old 05-06-2013, 09:10 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wileyC View Post
there is no "right to feel safe" enumerated in the constitution, ...and in fact, the bill of rights (amendments 1-10) are the "guarantee" of individual rights... ...not only that, but the bill of rights were crafted from the perspective that the gov't was the threat to individual liberty that needed to be kept at bay...
I've grown weary even trying to explain such things to such people. They will believe whatever Bill Maher tells them to believe anyway.
 
Old 05-09-2013, 09:37 AM   #94
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He chose a shitty model of gun.

He could have gotten their PG-12 model, which is a great AR-10.

Instead, he chose the barebones AR with pink acid splashes...
 
Old 05-09-2013, 10:36 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtmccray View Post
What I am curious about is if someone is not breaking a law what gives anyone the right to check serial numbers,run a check on someone or anything else for that matter. As far as the disarming part I can understand why they would want to take the weapon but if there is no known crime.... Where is the line drawn? When does it become go door to door and check everyone and their property just because there might be something we can make an arrest for?
Rich answered well, but I'll add my .02. When the police receive the complaint, they're duty-bound to check it. Once there, they have an obligation to do it in the safest way possible. In this case, taking the firearm at least until you know what's going on makes perfect sense.

I'm on the side of gun owners, but I find open carry because-you-can or to make a statement is stupid. Gun owners have to understand that guns make some people uncomfortable, and displaying them unnecessarily is going to draw unwanted (or maybe in this case wanted) attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ostrichsak View Post
You would not believe how hard of a point this is to make on firearm forums. It amazes me how many people actively try to deny one group their rights while simultaneously fighting to protect their own rights and don't understand the parallels no matter how well explained to them. No wonder so many 'groups' hate the NRA/Republican/Gun Owner types... we successfully managed to alienate every single group other than us specifically and personally I'm ashamed to have to belong to this group to fight for my 2A rights.
Arms are mentioned in the Constitution. Gay marriage is not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4banger09 View Post
This is a stupid thread because no one one for sure what the guy was doing before the cop showed up and how they interacted before the video rolled. Judging by the video and the way he was acting I'm on the cops side, I would want that guy picked up or at least checked.
Thank you.
 
Old 05-09-2013, 10:53 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Ostrichsak View Post
And neither is 'straight marriage' yet it's kind of a big deal, isn't it? Not going to get into this in a completely unrelated topic.
Agreed not to go off-topic. Reply deleted...
 
Old 05-09-2013, 11:06 AM   #98
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