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Old 09-19-2013, 06:32 PM   #21
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in all my stress course training...i point shoot...sights be damned...
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerfan00 View Post
in all my stress course training...i point shoot...sights be damned...
Exactly. I cringe when people talk about sights and how a gun feels when selecting a CCW weapon. These are probably the two least important factors of a CCW weapon. You want something that is light enough and small enough that you never leave home without it. Ever. Doesn't matter how good your night sights or grip is if it's sitting at home in the safe when you need it. Sights are largely optional when you've got an adrenaline dump and are hammer firing until you run out of ammo. It's not politically correct to say what I'm about to say since it's 'big boy rules' but you should really practice point shooting if you don't already and this is also important to weapon selection. Simply grab a Glock, look at a spot across the room and then present your firearm to where you think it's pointed at that spot. Now, look at your sights. Are they close enough that if that was a man's belly button you would be hitting center mass? Then you're good. Grip angles and various factors effect this so see what gun 'points' best for you and then practice that. Once you do that select the version of that firearm that is largest that you will actually carry 24/7. Congratulations, that's the best CCW firearm for you and all the rest is just fluff. Practice muzzle control when hammer firing through a mag and how much force it takes downward between shots to keep the shots grouped where you want them. Most of the rest of the shit you hear on forums that people say are important won't ever be a factor if you ever have to use it.

Now, if this is going to be a competition gun or a safe queen that you show off make sure you get all the fancy upgrades.
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:45 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ostrichsak View Post
Exactly. I cringe when people talk about sights and how a gun feels when selecting a CCW weapon. These are probably the two least important factors of a CCW weapon. You want something that is light enough and small enough that you never leave home without it. Ever. Doesn't matter how good your night sights or grip is if it's sitting at home in the safe when you need it. Sights are largely optional when you've got an adrenaline dump and are hammer firing until you run out of ammo. It's not politically correct to say what I'm about to say since it's 'big boy rules' but you should really practice point shooting if you don't already and this is also important to weapon selection. Simply grab a Glock, look at a spot across the room and then present your firearm to where you think it's pointed at that spot. Now, look at your sights. Are they close enough that if that was a man's belly button you would be hitting center mass? Then you're good. Grip angles and various factors effect this so see what gun 'points' best for you and then practice that. Once you do that select the version of that firearm that is largest that you will actually carry 24/7. Congratulations, that's the best CCW firearm for you and all the rest is just fluff. Practice muzzle control when hammer firing through a mag and how much force it takes downward between shots to keep the shots grouped where you want them. Most of the rest of the shit you hear on forums that people say are important won't ever be a factor if you ever have to use it.

Now, if this is going to be a competition gun or a safe queen that you show off make sure you get all the fancy upgrades.


so anyway... does anyone know the biggest compensator I can fit on my P238 for CCW?
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:05 AM   #24
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In a way, I like the LCP sights because they are low profile like the rest of the gun, and wont get caught on threads. As noted above, I would train with it constantly to figure out where the sweet spot is at all angles. I was watching this one guy shoot his rapidly...quick drawn from the hip at a short distance and it was effective enough! Again, for me it would be a last effort to return fire, jump over the body, and exit the situation.

This guy demonstrates some decent scenario shots for the LCP:

http://youtu.be/fmcfj4GbkZA
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:58 AM   #25
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Why do people get their panties in a wad when people just point out what is fact? The P238 has better sights than the LCP - FACT. That may not be important to you - you may conclude that the LCP sights are more than adequate for your intended use of the gun. If you are simply talking about self defense - then in all likelihood you'd never need to shoot at anything that is more than 5-7 yards away - tops - most likely would be much closer. And the LCP is more than capable of that - no argument there.
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Old 09-20-2013, 09:18 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWC View Post
Why do people get their panties in a wad when people just point out what is fact? The P238 has better sights than the LCP - FACT. That may not be important to you - you may conclude that the LCP sights are more than adequate for your intended use of the gun. If you are simply talking about self defense - then in all likelihood you'd never need to shoot at anything that is more than 5-7 yards away - tops - most likely would be much closer. And the LCP is more than capable of that - no argument there.
I dunno.. There are people who have money...who only look at features and high-end options..... It's like the guy who will tell you "This car is fusking awesome." Because it has a hemi....you ask that same person to explain "hemi" in full detail and why its awesome...and they have no answer because they do not actually know what the fusk it actually means.

Same with guns.. The general populous is a mixture of idiotic narcissist consumers who watch 1 video and believe everything said...and the other half are people who understand the science of a device and practice regularly. Those people always give honest feedback, while the rest provide insulting explanations of their lack of understanding.

-Not so much in this thread, everyone seems to be cool here. But just saying in General....this is the breakdown of the human animal.
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Old 09-21-2013, 07:27 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ostrichsak View Post
I love when people bag on the LCP's sights.

This is two spiders and a fly from about 15 feet (probably more) the day I bought it.

.
While I hope this is a real example of .380 professionalism...I personally question such accuracy other than point-blank with this tiny plastic pistol.

These holes could be from so many different and more accurate weapons, I can not view these cardboard images as any type of scientific or ballistic truth.

Given the angle of the lens...and the particle size of the insects innards...this looks more like a .22 caliber diameter hole. I guess my point is....Holes are holes... and I would buy you a shot of patron, if you actually fucking hit flys with an LCP at 15 yards. I know better dude...These are not .380 shots.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:55 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runn0r View Post
While I hope this is a real example of .380 professionalism...I personally question such accuracy other than point-blank with this tiny plastic pistol.

These holes could be from so many different and more accurate weapons, I can not view these cardboard images as any type of scientific or ballistic truth.

Given the angle of the lens...and the particle size of the insects innards...this looks more like a .22 caliber diameter hole. I guess my point is....Holes are holes... and I would buy you a shot of patron, if you actually fucking hit flys with an LCP at 15 yards. I know better dude...These are not .380 shots.
Bwahaha! The ratio compared to the bug's innards? Ok man. You're right. I'm a liar and your entomology expertise foiled my plan to convince everyone I did that with a .380 rather than a .22LR round.

Keep your shot. You're clearly too 1337 for me to enjoy a drink in the same room with. While you're drinking I'll keep putting in time behind various triggers so that people can call my shots impossible based on size/ratio to the bug's kidneys.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:01 PM   #29
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I have an older Colt Mustang (the gun the Sig P238 is based off) and a LCP. While both are intended as pocket guns, the Ruger generally fits that role better. The Ruger is smaller, thinner and lighter making it easier to conceal; it's also half the price of the Colt or Sig (Colt is making them again).

Both guns are sensitive to limp-wristing, especially the Ruger, but in a steady hand both tend to be very reliable. You must grip the Ruger well and quite honestly, they will rotate slightly in your hand when shooting if you're not paying attention. It's not a gun you take to the range for some target shooting; while quite accurate for what it is, it's not comfortable after a couple of magazines. The sights on the latest model LCP are also improved over earlier models- though still lacking a bit when compared to the Colt and Sig (a drop of paint or nail polish definitely helps). The trigger on the Colt and Sig is single action so of course it's going to be much better than the LCP's long double action pull. The Ruger (and the Kel-Tec) should not be used with so-called +P loads due to the thin barrels; no Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, etc.

The Kel-Tec, like all of their products that I've ever seen, appears to come from the factory approximately 95% finished. You still need to do a fluff and buff and remove all of the plastic flashing, clean the magwell, etc. While most of them that I've seen went bang, I'm just not impressed.

Another option you may want to look at is the S&W Bodyguard. It's slightly larger than the LCP, but still thinner and lighter than the Colt/Sig and it has a built in laser. I've shot several of them and like them a lot also.

Personally I like the LCP as I wear shorts most of the time when I'm not working and I feel it conceals better, but any of the better brands should work well for you. Remember that any gun carried in a pocket will need to be cleaned more often as they get dust and lint in them quickly, even when carried in a closed holster such as the Desantis Nemesis.

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Old 09-23-2013, 06:29 AM   #30
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I choose the Kahr P380 but originally wanted the LCP but didn't like the slide not locking back after the mag was empty:
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Old 09-23-2013, 03:25 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ostrichsak View Post
Bwahaha! The ratio compared to the bug's innards? Ok man. You're right. I'm a liar and your entomology expertise foiled my plan to convince everyone I did that with a .380 rather than a .22LR round.

Keep your shot. You're clearly too 1337 for me to enjoy a drink in the same room with. While you're drinking I'll keep putting in time behind various triggers so that people can call my shots impossible based on size/ratio to the bug's kidneys.
All i'm sayin is...if you are actually that good with a tiny .380...you should consider yourself a skilled pistol marksman and even then most skilled pistol marksmen would say wtf?..if those are in fact real shots, then why the hell would you not be proud of that and actually have a video of you nailing such pinpoint accuracy with such a gun? Why not be an example of the rewards of this trigger time? Be proud, take some pennies out there and video your skill. I would gladly watch in awe and respect then...as a tiny barrel nailed insects with lead . Not that you have to prove it...but we would all respect such marksmanship I think. Especially from a .380.
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Old 09-23-2013, 03:31 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajatacoma View Post
I have an older Colt Mustang (the gun the Sig P238 is based off) and a LCP. While both are intended as pocket guns, the Ruger generally fits that role better. The Ruger is smaller, thinner and lighter making it easier to conceal; it's also half the price of the Colt or Sig (Colt is making them again).

Both guns are sensitive to limp-wristing, especially the Ruger, but in a steady hand both tend to be very reliable. You must grip the Ruger well and quite honestly, they will rotate slightly in your hand when shooting if you're not paying attention. It's not a gun you take to the range for some target shooting; while quite accurate for what it is, it's not comfortable after a couple of magazines. The sights on the latest model LCP are also improved over earlier models- though still lacking a bit when compared to the Colt and Sig (a drop of paint or nail polish definitely helps). The trigger on the Colt and Sig is single action so of course it's going to be much better than the LCP's long double action pull. The Ruger (and the Kel-Tec) should not be used with so-called +P loads due to the thin barrels; no Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, etc.

The Kel-Tec, like all of their products that I've ever seen, appears to come from the factory approximately 95% finished. You still need to do a fluff and buff and remove all of the plastic flashing, clean the magwell, etc. While most of them that I've seen went bang, I'm just not impressed.

Another option you may want to look at is the S&W Bodyguard. It's slightly larger than the LCP, but still thinner and lighter than the Colt/Sig and it has a built in laser. I've shot several of them and like them a lot also.

Personally I like the LCP as I wear shorts most of the time when I'm not working and I feel it conceals better, but any of the better brands should work well for you. Remember that any gun carried in a pocket will need to be cleaned more often as they get dust and lint in them quickly, even when carried in a closed holster such as the Desantis Nemesis.

I concur. I first saw a Mustang at a gun show back in the 2000's before the .380 market got all these new models. I loved the mustang, but where it was a rarity back then it was about $800. Now they are making it again! I would love a full metal Sig or Colt eventually but currently any .380 I get wont see much range time other than its initiation. My friend had the bodyguard I did shoot once. It was not a bad pistol, just not my favorite design.

I agree totally about the pocket dirt. There is a lot of quartz in NC....unfortunately quartz is harder than steel, and a gun's nightmare dirt. Lube and love = battle ready.
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Old 09-23-2013, 03:34 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsaechao View Post
I choose the Kahr P380 but originally wanted the LCP but didn't like the slide not locking back after the mag was empty:
I really like Kahr, but I couldint see spending so much on a polymer .380. While its awesome polymer, I could use the same cash on a 238. The Kahr is very ergonomic tho. I just wish Glock would build something tiny! And not their LE .380.
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:22 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runn0r View Post
I really like Kahr, but I couldint see spending so much on a polymer .380. While its awesome polymer, I could use the same cash on a 238. The Kahr is very ergonomic tho. I just wish Glock would build something tiny! And not their LE .380.
You say Glock .380? Check out the DB380. They where sued by Glock for their design. Some people have had issues with the reliability, but my dad has one and we have shot about 200 rounds without an issue. I did do a fluff and buff on the gun though as I did on my Keltec.

Oh and Bajatacoma, great review, spot on.
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:47 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Front sight View Post
You say Glock .380? Check out the DB380. They where sued by Glock for their design. Some people have had issues with the reliability, but my dad has one and we have shot about 200 rounds without an issue. I did do a fluff and buff on the gun though as I did on my Keltec.

Oh and Bajatacoma, great review, spot on.
I remember seeing one of these in a case at the store, but really diddint know much about them. Interesting lawsuit. I saw that glock makes a G25 and a G28 that are "reserved for law enforcement only." Although I dont know their size..they look like regular 9mm frames....which defeats the purpose. I wish they would make something like the LCP or DB for the people. Maybe one day
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:56 AM   #36
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:07 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runn0r View Post
I concur. I first saw a Mustang at a gun show back in the 2000's before the .380 market got all these new models. I loved the mustang, but where it was a rarity back then it was about $800. Now they are making it again! I would love a full metal Sig or Colt eventually but currently any .380 I get wont see much range time other than its initiation. My friend had the bodyguard I did shoot once. It was not a bad pistol, just not my favorite design.

I agree totally about the pocket dirt. There is a lot of quartz in NC....unfortunately quartz is harder than steel, and a gun's nightmare dirt. Lube and love = battle ready.
I owned a Colt Pony Pocketlite for about 2 weeks.
Not much of a gun.
It didn't shoot well, had terrible recoil characteristics, and I paid good money for it. Luckily there was another Colt Koolaid drinker that wanted it more than I did.
The Sig 238 is a much better design.
Honestly, I wouldn't buy a .380 because you can get about the same size and weight and capacity in a much more capable cartridge that's cheaper to shoot.
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:10 AM   #38
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Nah - the smallest 9mm pistols are typically just a bit larger than the 380's. I know its not a big difference - but when you are trying to find the smallest pistol you can - small differences can be significant. For example, a Sig 938 is about 0.4" (almost 1/2 inch) longer than a P238. Yeah - the 938 is a 9mm that is almost the same size and weight as the 238 - it will be a bit snappier than the 938 too. At least with me i could get quicker follow up shots on target with a 238. I don't buy the argument that there is no reason for a 380 when you can get a nearly identical size/weight (nearly is the key word - the 9mm versions are always slightly larger) pistol chambered in 9mm. The 380 works for me.
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:29 PM   #39
Don't taze me bro!
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Name: Jer
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Originally Posted by Runn0r View Post
All i'm sayin is...if you are actually that good with a tiny .380...you should consider yourself a skilled pistol marksman and even then most skilled pistol marksmen would say wtf?..if those are in fact real shots, then why the hell would you not be proud of that and actually have a video of you nailing such pinpoint accuracy with such a gun? Why not be an example of the rewards of this trigger time? Be proud, take some pennies out there and video your skill. I would gladly watch in awe and respect then...as a tiny barrel nailed insects with lead . Not that you have to prove it...but we would all respect such marksmanship I think. Especially from a .380.
Of course they're real shots. Why would I lie about something like that in a conversation like this? I'm not anything other than someone who enjoys firearms and has made it a hobby for quite some time. I do various competitions and do well but I mostly do them for fun and to challenge myself. As far as why I don't have a video... do you have video of EVERYTHING you do in life? The pictures were an afterthought as I was zeroing a few new optics & just picked up that LCP when they came out years ago. I wanted to test it with a few hundred rounds (this will make you sore with this pistol, I don't recommend it) and since we were on some farmland there was no lack of bugs. As we walked up to the targets we noticed there were lots of flies and spiders so the decision was made to see how good the LCP could perform on precise work even though this isn't want the firearm was intended for. I thought it did alright, busted out the phone to snap some pics and we were on our way. I didn't realize it was going to be a point of contention moving forward or I honestly wouldn't have even posted the pictures.

If I told you something you thought was too unreal to believe you wouldn't believe me and would want pictures. If I posted pictures (as I did) you would want video (as you did) and had I posted a video you still wouldn't believe me and would want to know why I didn't fly you out there to see it with your own eyes in person. I dunno want you want me to say or do because I don't have video but that's w/o a doubt how it went down and I even have pictures to prove it. How you think you can compare bug innards to the size of a gunshot hole on a picture on the internet to discredit something someone says is beyond me.

I know what and who I respect & admire in life and it's not someone who can shoot small groups with a firearm. I can appreciate what you're saying since you seem to taken by what you've seen but I'm noting more than a hobbyist with nothing to prove. All I was trying to do was show that the sights on this firearm weren't as bad as some make it seem. I can think of much worse firearms I could have as a back up gun than this and I would urge others to not write it off so quickly based on something as subjective & potentially inconsequential as the sights. Whatever you carry train with it and become proficient. The best sights and gun in the world mean nothing in the hands of someone not willing to put in the effort to learn to use it properly.
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:34 PM   #40
Don't taze me bro!
Ostrichsak is one of the sharper tools in the shedOstrichsak is one of the sharper tools in the shedOstrichsak is one of the sharper tools in the shedOstrichsak is one of the sharper tools in the shedOstrichsak is one of the sharper tools in the shedOstrichsak is one of the sharper tools in the shedOstrichsak is one of the sharper tools in the shedOstrichsak is one of the sharper tools in the shedOstrichsak is one of the sharper tools in the shedOstrichsak is one of the sharper tools in the shedOstrichsak is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
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Name: Jer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Front sight View Post
You say Glock .380? Check out the DB380. They where sued by Glock for their design. Some people have had issues with the reliability, but my dad has one and we have shot about 200 rounds without an issue. I did do a fluff and buff on the gun though as I did on my Keltec.

Oh and Bajatacoma, great review, spot on.
I've got one of these too and the LCP is a substantially better firearm. I haven't had any reliability issues to speak of so that hasn't been an issue. I bought it in hopes it would replicate my beloved Glocks but it just doesn't stack up to the LCP IMO. I would say that either one is certainly capable but if I was forced to I would select the LCP for BUG duties over the DB380.

If Glock would finally give shooters what we've been asking for for a decade now I could die in peace: A single stack sub-compact Glock in 9mm with proprietary frame & slide to maximize the compactness. That would be the perfect CCW firearm IMO. As it is I carry an XDs 9mm or Shield 9mm as my primary and then then LCP as BUG in a front pocket usually. In the winter months I'm more apt to carry my G19 as it hides better under a hoody. It seems that M&P and Springfield made what everyone is asking for and are now making boat loads of money off of us and I'm not sure why Glock dislikes money so much. *shrugs*
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