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Old 03-10-2009, 11:39 AM   #1
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scattergun

alright guys...looking for some experience/advice on a few shotguns. currently trying to figure out what i want. this will be a tactical/personal defense (i prefer offense) weapon that lives may depend on. current models being considered are:
Remington 870
Remington 1000
Mossberg 590
Mossberg 930
Benelli M4

quite a diverse field, i know...i'm torn between the autos and pumpers. the autos have the obvious quality of fast shooting, but i can't come up with a compact setup for any of them ie: no folding stocks. i can set the pumps up for a more compact carry which is relevant to me as the shotgun will be the "backup" weapon in a S.H.T.F. situation. the Benelli is calling to me, but it's in a whole other price bracket.

anyone have experience with these particular models? the setup will be full on tactical when i'm through. what are your thoughts concerning pump vs auto and regular vs folding stocks?

this gun will be one of the three that will be grabbed during a catastrophic/life threatening/survival situation, so i am taking this purchase very seriously. any thoughts or comments appreciated.

BTW--anyone got a Sidewinder conversion they'd like to get rid of?
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:52 AM   #2
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Benellie top shelf + reliable
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:09 PM   #3
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Good choices all around, but I'd go with the Remmy 870. Super simple and will cycle any load (reduced power loads may or may not cycle the M4). But the biggest advantage the 870 has over those listed is the availability of aftermarket accessories. You can put together any set up you can imagine. Would you ever use the gun for hunting at all?
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:30 PM   #4
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The Benelli M4 is awesome but the 870 is more versitle. I have several stocks/forends(wood, synth, and AR style) and barrels(26" vented, 20" w/cant. scope mount, and 18" rifle sight). One gun with many uses from bird hunting to deer to compact home defense. And all at less than the M4.
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:30 PM   #5
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X2 on Rem. 870

I have had my 870 for about 6 yrs and I have ran sand through it and it still shoot. They are a very reliable shotgun, but your wife or GF is gonna be shooting it watch out a 12 ga 870 kicks like a mule.
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer Red Taco View Post

watch out a 12 ga 870 kicks like a mule.
X2, especially with 1oz. slugs. Tuck it tight!
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:49 PM   #7
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The Rem 870 is by the best choice for the money. Like others have said. it can be modified to suit any situation and is reliable. I have an 870 for hunting and it will shoot just as fast as an auto if needed.
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:51 PM   #8
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The 870 does kick pretty bad but my wife shoots with it alot and she only weighs 105 so it's not like a 300 mag or anything.
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:36 PM   #10
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for self defense id go with a pump 4sure. Ive had a 590 for 5 years, its great. have even used it for clays
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:19 AM   #11
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fishshooter: i already own an 870 that is used for hunting/clays, have had it for years but don't want to transform it into a zombie blaster...too much sentimental value. so i'm looking at getting another one...possibly this one:

then adding an optic sight sidesaddle shell holder and folding stock.

LEEP & kilted: just found out last night that i cannot get the stock on the M4 that i want (LE) only, so i've taken it out of the running...still...they are badass

K.R.T.: nah, she can get her own! lol

gonzo: the recoil is another reason i'm considering an auto. i put countless rounds through my "hunting" 870 including 3" mags, and she does buck a little bit.

Blackened: i just recently found out about the FN's. they look sweet, but i'm sure they are pretty expensive as well.

Zonks: is that a TAC model 590? or sporting? does it handle well? i've heard they are somewhat heavy...which is good for killing recoil. any problems/dislikes about it?

thanks for the replies everyone...keep em coming. anyone have any experience with a Mossberg 930?
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:49 AM   #13
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For home defense use or hunting? Or both? An 870 Wingmaster will work for both. For hunting I'm partial to my Beretta Urika 2 12ga auto.

Next to my nightstand is my 870 express. In the nightstand is the Sig 229.
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:28 AM   #14
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I was always a fan of the double barrel coach gun. It is small, lights, and scary as hell.

Another option is a good lever action rifle. There is a lot to be said for the sound of something racking a round. I am a BIG fan of the Marlin Cowboy 45-70. It will kill anything that moves. But if you are looking for something to used inside the home, REMEMBER that virtually any shotgun or rifle (and a lot of hangun) rounds will penetrate walls. Stick to a 38 with +p rounds.
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Old 03-11-2009, 09:17 AM   #15
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I have both the Benelli M4 and the 870P (police). Previously I owned Benelli, M1's and M3's. There is a big diff in the Remington Police and non police models.

Before the differences I must say a few things....

Every Benelli I had will NOT cycle light loads. As they wear in, they may cycle lighter loads, but never light. Otherwise if it's full power, it will cycle it reliably. But, when you use if for defense anyway, you should be using full power loads.

The pump always works, but the major error in usage is operator error of short shucking it. Which you may do under stress, but that can be minimized by training.

The Benelli is fastest, no matter what anyone says using a pump can do, you have to be really go to pump that fast and accurately.

But Rem has the most accessories and is most modular.

Here's the diff between the Remington models.....

The 870 Police is made in a different area in the manufacturing facility. I wondered why the 870's ranged fro $200 to $800+ and now I understand why.



Here's the actual differences between the Express and Police models:

First what REMINGTON says:
REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, LE DIVISION

Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns.
The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market. It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality.
All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences.
It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models. Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.

While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police.
To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.

Here's more info on the differences:
Differences between the Express, Wingmaster, and Police

The Express is Remington's "budget" gun, made to compete with the cheaper to make Winchester and Mossberg guns.

How Remington lowered the price was to reduce hand labor to a bare minimum, and to eliminate much of the polishing and de-burring the better quality Wingmaster and Police guns get.

The Express is basically the same forged and milled steel receiver and heavy-duty internals gun the better 870's are, just in a rougher, less well finished form with plastic and MIM parts.

The Express Model has:
A plastic trigger group.
The dimples in the mag tube and the new style plastic magazine retention system, EXCEPT on the extended magazine version, which does NOT have the dimples.
A rougher finish inside and outside, with machine marks and some burrs left.
A rougher, bead blasted blue job.
A less polished bore.
A two piece barrel. (not 100% sure about this)
Hardwood or synthetic stock, with a sporting-length fore end and pressed-in checkering.
The Defense version has 18", Cylinder bore barrel, with a bead sight.
Some Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts, like the extractor.
Has the locking safety button, although Remington MAY have discontinued it.

The Wingmaster has:
An aluminum trigger group.
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Wingmaster gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.
A fine, commercial polished blue finish.
A polished bore.
A one piece barrel.
Walnut stocks with the famous "Bowling Pin" finish in gloss or satin. and better checkering.
Wide choices in barrel lengths and choke options.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.
The Wingmaster is the full top-of-the-line commercial Remington pump gun, and is priced accordingly.

The 870 Police has:
An aluminum trigger group.
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Police gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.
A military-grade parkerized finish.
A polished bore.
A one piece barrel.
Walnut or synthetic stock, with a short police-length fore end.
The Remington “R3” super recoil pad that reduced felt recoil by 30%.
Choices in different stocks, including Speed-feed, and others.
18" to 20" improved cylinder barrel, with a wide choice in sights, including rifle, ghost ring, and luminous.
Heavy-duty magazine spring.
Heavy-duty trigger-sear spring.
Sling swivel mounts.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.

The Express is a "bottom of the line" budget gun, the Wingmaster is a "top of the line" sporting gun, the Police is the top-of-the-line in defense guns.
The 870's are generally considered to be the finest quality pump gun made.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:10 AM   #16
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Great find and write-up. Rep for you!
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:25 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janster View Post
If you're looking for compact, get a handgun.
Taurus Judge. Shoots .410ga shells and/or .45LC bullets.

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Old 03-11-2009, 03:47 PM   #19
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I vote for the Binelli M4.....but you might also take a look at the Binelli Super Nova pump, considerably less $ and available in a tactical version, if you like the pump. I like a semi-auto better although there are always trade-offs.
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUK 0H5 View Post
Taurus Judge. Shoots .410ga shells and/or .45LC bullets.


This pistol was tested on a website that tests ammunition and shotgun loads, called the "Box o Truth".

The take ammo and fire into different media Dry wall, 2x4's, water jugs, etc. ) and not effectiveness, penetration and deflection, and damage.

their conclusion on the pistol are there.
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