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Old 04-02-2010, 07:24 PM   #1
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Considering an AR

Alright guys,
I've been shooting for about two years now, off and on. Nothing serious. I've got a Remington 870 12 ga. which I love dearly (1st gun). Well, a buddy of mine has let me shoot his DPMS AR-15 a few times (.223 previously and today a .308...awesome). Well today I took the g/f out with me and she got to shoot and man did we have a blast. Hell, she's so excited I'm having to stop her from running out and buying one tomorrow...So now, we're considering getting one (or two )...problem is, not quite sure where to start. I love the DPMS and they've been recommended to me by a few, but I also know there's tons out there and there are just as many options on this as there are on anything else. Basically what I'm asking is, where do I start? What questions should I ask around the gun shop? Does brand matter? Should i even bother looking at used? (prices are almost equivalent)

We're not looking seriously at buying anytime soon, but getting our ducks in a row for down the road (6-8 months...maybe more).

Whaddya think?
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:35 PM   #2
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Budsgunshop has a pretty nice Double Start AR-15 for 669.99. The gun has some awesome reviews. dont own one myself yet but i'm also planning on purchasing one for meself and the lady
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:41 PM   #3
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get an AK less problems
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRDKenE View Post
get an AK less problems
Based on what?

DPMS and Double Star are not bad brand but they aren't the greatest either. There are plenty of good AR forums that you can research your purchase but ignore the AK post above. Pure ignorance!
BuckshotJones,
I'm not going to start a pissing match over brands on this forum. Once you make a decision and if you still want an educated opinion, P.M. me.
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:35 PM   #5
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Unless you want an AR10, avoid DPMS. They are not quality.
Look at CMMG and STAG for a good cost to quality ratio.
Get a chrome-lined bore.

If it's not on this list, beware. *There are certain exceptions of course.
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:41 PM   #7
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If you're dead seat on going the AR route, Packerfan has some good advice.

On the other hand, I personally would rather have an ak-47 over the AR platform for just plinking around. Cost less to shoot, cost less to own, much simpler design, and a lot more reliable.
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Brown View Post
I've heard good things about the Remington AR-15. It's made by Bushmaster(but after looking at that chart, maybe not so much.)
Yeah, it's still a BushMaster.


AK vs. AR = apples and oranges
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Brown View Post
Ahh, and the the AK vs AR war begins again.
I didn't intend to start a riot or anything, just adding my words of advice. I've been both routes, and from what I learned I would prefer the AK for plinking around.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:34 PM   #11
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These threads crack me up. There is nothing wrong with a DPMS, Bushmaster or any other make for that matter. I have a colt, DPMS and an olympic arms. I have also owned a bushmaster (I get them at 50% off msrp). They are all made to mil-spec. I would not recommend the olympic arms, but I have not had any problems with my DPMS or bushmaster.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:44 PM   #12
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I've got a 16'' LMT that I picked up a few years back in WA. Run about 4k rounds through the weapon w/o any problems.

Purchased the lower at a gun shop and ordered the upper through LMT directly. No wait times and decent prices at the time, plus LMT customer service was excellent. Last I heard they were pretty back-logged on the orders.
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Old 04-03-2010, 05:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Brown View Post
Ahh, and the the AK vs AR war begins again.
Ehhh...really wasn't my intent...honestly...

Wow, guys thanks for the info. Really some of the things I'm curious about are like, do I want gas or piston driven? Do I need a 1in7 barrel or will 1in9 or a little larger be okay? Basically the "what in the gun do i need" questions. I'll typically shoot on a 50 to 100yd range.

PackerFan, awesome stuff, I'm gonna give that a serious lookover. I've been eyeing the bushmaster models, DPMS, Stag, and Rock River Arms. I'll definitely look more.

Thanks again!
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Old 04-03-2010, 05:50 AM   #14
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As far as barrel twist, the 1/9 is for longer range, heavier loads. 1/7 will work great for 55gr-68gr rounds. Ive got a Mk12 copy (recce M-4) that I shoot 77gr & 87 gr out to about 600 meters with. No issues at all. For teh AK/AR argument, Im with Packerfan, they both have great advantages adn disadvantages in both performance, cost, and adaptability. At the end of the day, its not how badass your gun looks, its whether you can drive your gun, get your rounds on target and stop the threat. If you like to plink, look at an AR in .22-cheap ammo, decent range and you can practice on the same setup.
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Old 04-03-2010, 06:00 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackerfanXD View Post
Unless you want an AR10, avoid DPMS. They are not quality.
Look at CMMG and STAG for a good cost to quality ratio.
Get a chrome-lined bore.

If it's not on this list, beware. *There are certain exceptions of course.
As an aside, the list is a little dated. For example, CMMG now properly stakes the gas key and uses an MPI bolt and pressure test it.
But, you can't go wrong with anything on the list.
Also, read this: http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/ar-talk...tml#post884909
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:49 AM   #16
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I have nothing to base my opinion in except from what i have heard from AR owners and was just told that if i didnt want a bunch of headaches to get an AK...the thing most recently that scares me bout AR is that my buddy at work was shooting his it jammed and promptly fired 7 rounds wuthout his finger on the trigger...builder error? Possibly...parts failure maybei dont know just scares me a bit when u hear these stories..of course it shouldnt i own 2 glocks and supposedly they self desruct?...but i love my glocks
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:15 AM   #17
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First of all check out the good information at www.ar15.com. Next you need to ask yourself want you intend to use the carbine for. Are you going into combat? If not then the Colt is a waste money. If you are using it for varmint hunting then get an upper design for such. (Sorry AK guys. AKs are not accurate past 100 yards and are not good enough for varmint hunting). Part of the enjoyment of at AR is the accessories you put on them. A cool EOTech sight or other scope is fun to have. These accessories cost quite a bit when you get into them. Also ammo isn't cheap anymore. Spend the money on accessories and ammo rather then a pure military gun IMO.

I did tons of research and rented many different brands. I ended up with a Mil-Spec'd Stag 2T. I've put "urban" assault equipment on the 16" Stag upper. I've since purchased a Bushmaster Varminator upper to put on the Stag lower with a high powered scope. It's working out nearly as well as my Remington model 700 22-250 for coyote hunting. I let my son use the 22-250 and I use my AR when we thump bad dogs. The 22-250 reaches out and touches them more accurately.

Also if you need accuracy at longer distances (Sorry AK guys), look at getting something with a floating barrel. Both the Stag and Bushmaster uppers I have are of this design.

If the AR is jamming then you aren't taking care of it. I've put probably 5000 rounds through my Stag upper and have had zero jams. Stay away from old communist Wolf ammo. I also clean it well after each use. I rope barrel cleaner run through it every 500 rounds out in the field will keep it accurate until you get home and really give it a good cleaning. Break in the barrel properly and all AR brands should treat you well.

Have fun and enjoy these well designed carbines.
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:29 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stenyeart View Post
These threads crack me up. There is nothing wrong with a DPMS, Bushmaster or any other make for that matter. I have a colt, DPMS and an olympic arms. I have also owned a bushmaster (I get them at 50% off msrp). They are all made to mil-spec. I would not recommend the olympic arms, but I have not had any problems with my DPMS or bushmaster.
Are you trying to tell me that your DPMS or BM is of equal quality as your Colt?
Btw,
Quote:
No commercially produced AR15 type rifle is "mil spec."
Configuration is a part of the military specification, but since many of us don't want/can't have an M16 coming off the assembly line, this is of little interest to most. (Collectors & machine gunners, forgive me!)
More importantly, none have gone through the government mandated test and inspection, let alone compliance and certifications. These procedures & requirements, hated by all manufacturers, are the best cost effective attempt at ensuring a reasonable level of quality in parts and finish, as well as assembly, from rifle to rifle. Remember, the lowest bidder gets the contact, normally. Rest assured, NONE of the commercial guns meet these kinds of requirements.
Many parts in AR15 type rifles simply could not be mil spec, since they are different parts, and not even used by the military. And not inconsequencial parts either: bolt carrier, hammer, trigger, disconnector, safety selector, etc. In fact, these are some of the most critical parts in the rifle. Even the steel called for in the bolt mil drawings (Carpenter 151, I think?) is virtually never used in commercial bolts.
And then there's Colt, who uses, from time to time, non standard hammer/trigger pin holes and take down pin holes, as well as includes a "block" in the lower for reasons bizzarre.
Manufacturers/dealers/etc. insist that their rifles/parts are "mil spec". What does this mean?

In the best case, it means that all the parts in the rifle's assembly are either actual G.I. parts (modified as required by BATF for semi-auto where necessary), or "virtually" the same, and, that they were assembled in a manner consistant with those levels of quality equal to, or better, than that found in "contract" rifles. By parts that are "virtually" the same, I mean made by the same contractor, the same way, as the mil part.
In the worst case, it's pure hype.
Normally, it's in between these two.
In virtually every case, a part made by a G.I. contractor is vastly superior to a part made by a non-contractor. Many part suppliers/rifle builders/manufacturers actively seek out "cheaper" parts supliers in lieu of the current, higher priced contractors.
We see lots of crapola parts in rifles sent to the shop for repair. Lots. However, current Armalite and Bushmaster rifles are typically just fine, though in serious need of lubrication--but that's another story!
Hope this helps!
--Clint McKee
http://www.fulton-armory.com/Mil_Spec.htm



Quote:
Originally Posted by 283 View Post
As an aside, the list is a little dated. For example, CMMG now properly stakes the gas key and uses an MPI bolt and pressure test it.
But, you can't go wrong with anything on the list.
Also, read this: http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/ar-talk/59069-so-you-want-buy-ar-15-faqs-2.html#post884909
It's not that old but I'll try and find an updated chart.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kinetik873 View Post
As far as barrel twist, the 1/9 is for longer range, heavier loads. 1/7 will work great for 55gr-68gr rounds. Ive got a Mk12 copy (recce M-4) that I shoot 77gr & 87 gr out to about 600 meters with. No issues at all. For teh AK/AR argument, Im with Packerfan, they both have great advantages adn disadvantages in both performance, cost, and adaptability. At the end of the day, its not how badass your gun looks, its whether you can drive your gun, get your rounds on target and stop the threat. If you like to plink, look at an AR in .22-cheap ammo, decent range and you can practice on the same setup.
1/9 is more for 55gr and smaller.
1/7 is for heavier gr bullets.
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:40 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackerfanXD View Post
just realized I typed that in the wrong order....im an idiot.



1/9 is more for 55gr and smaller.
1/7 is for heavier gr bullets.
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