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Old 04-07-2011, 11:13 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
1. How exactly are you shrugging? Head kinda leaning down, shoulders straight up, straight down? or are you rolling your shoulders back? (which should never be done)...
Regarding the never roll the shoulders comment, I'm curious to know why that is.

When I do shrugs I'm very deliberate, using an up, back, forward, and down movement. I include the backward shift of the shoulders to mimic a locked-out deadlift position. It's not a roll, per se, but it's more than a straight up and down movement.

It's something I started doing over the years as I figured out what worked best for my body. Just want to make sure it's not causing harm that I'm unaware of.

Thanks for all the info!
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:47 AM   #42
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well first of all, 2-3 days a week is not that much, which means you have to stack your muscle groups up each day, which means you can't pay as much attention to each muscle group, and my philosophy is, the more attention you can give a muscle, the more it responds to the training, so try to get at least 4 days a week in, so you can do something like chest, legs, back, shoulders/arms, and there are no "fast as possible" gains when you've already been training 4 years and have seen some noticeable strength and size gains, so from now on your gains will be slower, but should be steady as long as you can train a little more often, train a little harder, not necessarily heavier, but incorporate heavier weights, and keep some reps thrown in too, the best way to exhaust a muscle is with weight AND reps which is why I believe in the pyramid style of training, but do whatever works best for you, experiment with a few diff types of training methods to see what you like best and to see what gets you the most results, but the first step should always be to switch things up and try something new because by now, your body is used to what you've been doing



1. How exactly are you shrugging? Head kinda leaning down, shoulders straight up, straight down? or are you rolling your shoulders back? (which should never be done) I don't ever really feel much in my upper neck, it's always traps, but if you feel too much strain in your neck, maybe try lowering the weight and shrugging a little slower, I've never used a lot of weight for traps and they grow just fine, isolation is often better than weight when it comes to certain muscle groups

2. I get a lot of tendon pain in my forearms as well when working biceps, and that's not something you can really do anything about, you can always try to work around that pain and find exercises that don't hurt, but you're going to give up a lot of good exercises to the pain if you do that, I've always been told that it's just a little bit of tendonitis that comes and goes, so I just put up with it, I mostly feel it on straight bar curls, the easy bar curl is fine and I don't ever feel it much at all on dumbbells but like I said I don't think there's much you can really do about it, try working forearms really hard every week, I've heard of people getting rid of the forearm pain by hitting the forearms really hard and strengthening those muscles, so try some straight bar wrist curls and extensions until failure for your last few exercises on arm day and see how that effects the pain when doing biceps
1: Most of my shrug workouts are done on this machine, facing forwards and then backwards. I also do barbell shrugs, dumbbell shrugs, and cable on pulley at its lowest setting with a bar. I really dont keep my head in any particular way - should it be up or down? I extend my shoulders down as far as they can go and then up about 90% of the way. I don't roll my shoulders back, but I often see people do that - what's wrong with doin so?

2: Cool well it sounds like I'm not doing anything wrong with the biceps since this pain/discomfort afterwards seems normal. I'll work on forearms more also.

Thanks again!
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:50 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjp2 View Post
Regarding the never roll the shoulders comment, I'm curious to know why that is.

When I do shrugs I'm very deliberate, using an up, back, forward, and down movement. I include the backward shift of the shoulders to mimic a locked-out deadlift position. It's not a roll, per se, but it's more than a straight up and down movement.

It's something I started doing over the years as I figured out what worked best for my body. Just want to make sure it's not causing harm that I'm unaware of.

Thanks for all the info!
Short answer, it's not a good idea to roll your shoulders. Long answer...

Thought it better to let someone else explain... so I found this...

Rolling the shoulders is likely to cause an injury...

Read this from a physiotherapist....

“Performing shrugs with rounded shoulders (shoulder protraction) creates increased stress at the sternoclavicular joint, acromioclavicular (AC) joint, and cervical spine. With the shoulders in a rounded position, the rhomboids and lower trapezius are in a lengthened position (altered length-tension relationship). This decreases scapulothoracic stability and increases stress into the cervical spine and shoulder complex. The upper trapezius, lower trapezius, and serratus anterior work as a force couple. If the scapula is protracted, then the serratus anterior is in a shortened position (altered length-tension relationship). This requires the upper trapezius to become over-dominant and increases stress in the cervical spine and AC joint. In addition, performing shrugs in a rounded posture decreases stabilization of the glenohumeral joint because the rotator cuff cannot maintain stability of the humeral head in the glenoid fossa with the shoulder blade muscles in a poor-length tension position. For the reasons above I would recommend that shrugs be performed in a straight up and down fashion and avoid rolling the shoulders.”

And then a more user friendly explanation...

Shrugs can be done straight(to your ear) or with the anglulation backward (behind your ear).

In the early days people would roll their shoulders forwards or backwards while performing the shrug movement thinking it would hit the muscles differently, which it does but it decreases the strain on the primary mover so it can become less effective in the process. In order to work your rhomboids shrugs are important, rolling the shoulders backwards does pinch the shoulder blades but the force of the weight is downwards so it is not very effective with the rhomboids(especially since they are downward scapular rotators). Anteriorly rolling puts more strain on the pec minor but again the angle of force is not as effective and bench press is a better activity for them as well.

So in summary to effectively work your traps pull straight up to your ear or behind your ear. Make certain though that you focus on the exercise for if you see some "eye candy" and turn to watch, your neck may be very very sore for a while.
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:57 AM   #44
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Interesting. I wonder if that only has to do with dropping the shoulders forward? I do avoid dropping forward and always work to maintain spinal alignment through the range of motion.

I should have mentioned that the back motion I only do with a bar. When using dumbbells it's straight up and down.
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:32 PM   #45
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What is most paramount in developing a bigger chest? I seem to be able to get good gains in my arms, shoulders and back, but my chest never really gets huge. I do the pyramid style repping, and my typical chest day is flat, incline, flys, pushups and/or some isolation exercises (no decline bench in my gym unfortunately). I also tend to alternate b/t barbell and dumbell presses. Any excercises that I should definitely be doing? Should I quit doing the 10-12 reps on 135-155 and just go heavy? Thanks
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:35 PM   #46
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So how do i get rid of the beer belly with out running, i hate cardio. And i no longer drink, but it is still there after 2 years. Pretty much all i do is bike ride and hit the heavy bag. Any suggestions
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:10 PM   #47
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Great tips here! Found some things to change to my workouts!
What do u guys think of using your body weight like push-ups,pull-ups and squats to stay fit?
When I can't get to the gym I will do like 700 push -ups in a session doing 50-30 at a time and least 100 pull ups 30-15 at a time. Some weeks when i work too much this is all I do daily in my living room in aprx. 45 min so that I won't loose muscle mass and strength.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:14 PM   #48
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Cool thread man!
I have a question about protein and what to eat... I am lactose intolerant so right now the powder i used Muscle Milk even though i haven't really looked into anything else. Do you have some suggestions on a good powder that is Lactose intolerant?
By the way. your crazy man haha
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:49 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodygg View Post
Short answer, it's not a good idea to roll your shoulders. Long answer...

Thought it better to let someone else explain... so I found this...

Rolling the shoulders is likely to cause an injury...

Read this from a physiotherapist....

“Performing shrugs with rounded shoulders (shoulder protraction) creates increased stress at the sternoclavicular joint, acromioclavicular (AC) joint, and cervical spine. With the shoulders in a rounded position, the rhomboids and lower trapezius are in a lengthened position (altered length-tension relationship). This decreases scapulothoracic stability and increases stress into the cervical spine and shoulder complex. The upper trapezius, lower trapezius, and serratus anterior work as a force couple. If the scapula is protracted, then the serratus anterior is in a shortened position (altered length-tension relationship). This requires the upper trapezius to become over-dominant and increases stress in the cervical spine and AC joint. In addition, performing shrugs in a rounded posture decreases stabilization of the glenohumeral joint because the rotator cuff cannot maintain stability of the humeral head in the glenoid fossa with the shoulder blade muscles in a poor-length tension position. For the reasons above I would recommend that shrugs be performed in a straight up and down fashion and avoid rolling the shoulders.”

And then a more user friendly explanation...

Shrugs can be done straight(to your ear) or with the anglulation backward (behind your ear).

In the early days people would roll their shoulders forwards or backwards while performing the shrug movement thinking it would hit the muscles differently, which it does but it decreases the strain on the primary mover so it can become less effective in the process. In order to work your rhomboids shrugs are important, rolling the shoulders backwards does pinch the shoulder blades but the force of the weight is downwards so it is not very effective with the rhomboids(especially since they are downward scapular rotators). Anteriorly rolling puts more strain on the pec minor but again the angle of force is not as effective and bench press is a better activity for them as well.

So in summary to effectively work your traps pull straight up to your ear or behind your ear. Make certain though that you focus on the exercise for if you see some "eye candy" and turn to watch, your neck may be very very sore for a while.
yes sir! on the money

Quote:
Originally Posted by jds0912 View Post
What is most paramount in developing a bigger chest? I seem to be able to get good gains in my arms, shoulders and back, but my chest never really gets huge. I do the pyramid style repping, and my typical chest day is flat, incline, flys, pushups and/or some isolation exercises (no decline bench in my gym unfortunately). I also tend to alternate b/t barbell and dumbell presses. Any excercises that I should definitely be doing? Should I quit doing the 10-12 reps on 135-155 and just go heavy? Thanks
well you're doing all the best exercises for chest and you're following a good routine, however I would go a little heavier, do you ALWAYS do 10-12? never heavier? I would work your way up to some heavy 6-8 and 8-10 rep ranges along with your 10-12s and even throw in some 15+ at the end to fully exhaust the muscle, so your lack of development COULD be from going too light but it could also be part genetics as well, but just switch it up and go a little heavier and make sure you're getting enough protein in a day and see what happens

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcbs204 View Post
So how do i get rid of the beer belly with out running, i hate cardio. And i no longer drink, but it is still there after 2 years. Pretty much all i do is bike ride and hit the heavy bag. Any suggestions
losing body fat is all about diet and cardio, if you don't like cardio, you can get some results from diet alone and taking out beer isn't enough lol you need to eat cleaner, smaller portions, and more often, like 5-6 small meals a day instead of 2-3 big ones to get the metabolism up, plenty of chicken and lean meats, good complex carbs like brown rice and potatoes and vegetables, try to cut out your sodas and keep the breads and pastas to a minimum

Quote:
Originally Posted by J4RR View Post
Great tips here! Found some things to change to my workouts!
What do u guys think of using your body weight like push-ups,pull-ups and squats to stay fit?
When I can't get to the gym I will do like 700 push -ups in a session doing 50-30 at a time and least 100 pull ups 30-15 at a time. Some weeks when i work too much this is all I do daily in my living room in aprx. 45 min so that I won't loose muscle mass and strength.
sounds good bro, if you can't make it to the gym, do whatever you can!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaw154 View Post
Cool thread man!
I have a question about protein and what to eat... I am lactose intolerant so right now the powder i used Muscle Milk even though i haven't really looked into anything else. Do you have some suggestions on a good powder that is Lactose intolerant?
By the way. your crazy man haha
honestly I don't know a whole lot about lactose intolerance aside from the fact that muscle milk should be mostly lactose free, but even some lactose intolerant athletes can't drink muscle milk, but there are others out there and I found a good link for you to a blog of a guy that's lactose intolerant and he lays out his entire stack that works great for him after going through many products that he couldn't take:

http://blog.bodybuilding.com/veinbre..._works_for_me/

hope that helps bro!
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:08 PM   #50
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1: Most of my shrug workouts are done on this machine, facing forwards and then backwards. I also do barbell shrugs, dumbbell shrugs, and cable on pulley at its lowest setting with a bar. I really dont keep my head in any particular way - should it be up or down? I extend my shoulders down as far as they can go and then up about 90% of the way. I don't roll my shoulders back, but I often see people do that - what's wrong with doin so?

2: Cool well it sounds like I'm not doing anything wrong with the biceps since this pain/discomfort afterwards seems normal. I'll work on forearms more also.

Thanks again!
What about my shrug technique? Should I be looking up or down or...?
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:34 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by especk View Post
What about my shrug technique? Should I be looking up or down or...?
well I personally tilt my head down a little bit when I shrug only because I feel like I can get my shoulders a little higher and get a better squeeze at the top, as opposed to keeping my head straight up, you know what I mean?
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:01 PM   #52
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well I personally tilt my head down a little bit when I shrug only because I feel like I can get my shoulders a little higher and get a better squeeze at the top, as opposed to keeping my head straight up, you know what I mean?
ya, that's good. Thanks.
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Old 04-08-2011, 04:30 AM   #53
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ya, that's good. Thanks.
because if you go by the "touch your shoulders to your ears" philosophy of shrugging, you can raise your shoulders higher if your head is tilted down a little bit, or at least your traps don't run into your neck so it feels more comfortable
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:06 AM   #54
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2: After doing a hard workout with bicep curls, I notice that I feel a lot of soreness near the tendens betweeen my forearms and bicep (around my elbow area). I have noticed this more since I have been doing a lot of preacher curls (but I do them backwards on the 'bench' so I am using the verticle side, not the slanted side like most people do. I feel like doing them this way makes it more difficult and works the biceps better). I generally extend to about 90% of full extension after each rep. Any ideas of why I feel a lot of soreness/tightness in my elbow region after these workouts? Is this ok? Am I extending too far?
Thanks!
I get this same soreness in the tendons between my elbow and wrist when I really hit biceps hard. It comes and goes, mostly depending on how hard and often I'm working biceps, but it's so bad sometimes it feels like bad bruises the length of my forearms. But two things I've found that really make a difference, for me anyway. First, is to make an effort to stretch my forearms by pulling my fingers back and the other thing are those bicep bands that you see a lot of football players wearing. Someone suggested to me that the tendons are pulling away from the bone slightly and this is causing them to become inflamed, etc., and that those bands help to hold the tendons in place during the lift. I think they've made a difference for me. I just wear them when I do bicep work. Oh, also... tart cherry juice. It has great anti-inflamatory properties, along with other positives, and really seems to help my knees (running, cycling) and also my forearms. Just some things to try.
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:15 AM   #55
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how often do you switch your program up? 4 weeks? 2 months?
Great Thread.
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Old 04-09-2011, 02:40 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by dgm View Post
I get this same soreness in the tendons between my elbow and wrist when I really hit biceps hard. It comes and goes, mostly depending on how hard and often I'm working biceps, but it's so bad sometimes it feels like bad bruises the length of my forearms. But two things I've found that really make a difference, for me anyway. First, is to make an effort to stretch my forearms by pulling my fingers back and the other thing are those bicep bands that you see a lot of football players wearing. Someone suggested to me that the tendons are pulling away from the bone slightly and this is causing them to become inflamed, etc., and that those bands help to hold the tendons in place during the lift. I think they've made a difference for me. I just wear them when I do bicep work. Oh, also... tart cherry juice. It has great anti-inflamatory properties, along with other positives, and really seems to help my knees (running, cycling) and also my forearms. Just some things to try.
yeah same here, the pain comes and goes but the only thing I've ever heard of that helps is actually working forearms really hard with wrist curls, palms facing up and down, but I've never heard of bicep bands working before so that's interesting, I think tennis players also use that for tennis elbow? I'll have to try that out, good post

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how often do you switch your program up? 4 weeks? 2 months?
Great Thread.
I always work one muscle group a day, so when I switch things up it's either order of exercises, or new exercises, all compound or all isolating exercises or a mixture of both, increase/decrease volume, higher/lower intensity, lighter/heavier weight, etc. and I change up exercises every week but don't usually change up sets and reps or volume but every couple months
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Old 04-11-2011, 02:24 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by jaw154 View Post
Cool thread man!
I have a question about protein and what to eat... I am lactose intolerant so right now the powder i used Muscle Milk even though i haven't really looked into anything else. Do you have some suggestions on a good powder that is Lactose intolerant?
By the way. your crazy man haha
i'm lactose and i use isopure. muscle milk is crap IMO. it just tastes good. i put on alot of strenght when i switched to isopure in the first couple of months
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Old 04-11-2011, 02:36 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaw154 View Post
Cool thread man!
I have a question about protein and what to eat... I am lactose intolerant so right now the powder i used Muscle Milk even though i haven't really looked into anything else. Do you have some suggestions on a good powder that is Lactose intolerant?
By the way. your crazy man haha
I'm lactose intolerant as well, I've taken BSN Syntha 6 and that doesn't really affect me, it might affect you more based on how severe your allergy is. ON has just come out with a new protein, Platinum Hydro Builder. It piggy backs onto Hydrowhey and both are lactose free. Very high quality protein in my opinion. If you are going with Cytosport brand stuff such as muscle milk, I would suggest Monster Milk. I used that for awhile when I was in the lower 48 and its great stuff, at least for me. Check the ingredients of the proteins and look for Lactase Enzyme, anything with that should be pretty decent for you. Gaspari Myofusion didn't really affect me either, nor did MusclePharm Combat powder, but I just can't stand the Muscle Pharm stuff lol.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:37 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808matt View Post
i'm lactose and i use isopure. muscle milk is crap IMO. it just tastes good. i put on alot of strenght when i switched to isopure in the first couple of months
yeah muscle milk is garbage, bad quality protein (blend & concentrate) you want to look for whey ISOLATE, which is exactly what isopure is & the results speak for themselves lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by KodiakToyTRD View Post
I'm lactose intolerant as well, I've taken BSN Syntha 6 and that doesn't really affect me, it might affect you more based on how severe your allergy is. ON has just come out with a new protein, Platinum Hydro Builder. It piggy backs onto Hydrowhey and both are lactose free. Very high quality protein in my opinion. If you are going with Cytosport brand stuff such as muscle milk, I would suggest Monster Milk. I used that for awhile when I was in the lower 48 and its great stuff, at least for me. Check the ingredients of the proteins and look for Lactase Enzyme, anything with that should be pretty decent for you. Gaspari Myofusion didn't really affect me either, nor did MusclePharm Combat powder, but I just can't stand the Muscle Pharm stuff lol.
yeah Optimum Nutrition's whey is the best quality for the price IMO, has whey isolate, low carbs/fat, a complete BCAA profile, etc. it's been the best selling product period, not to mention best selling protein powder on bodybuilding.com for years

great post in regards to your lactose intolerance & how various products affect you
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:51 PM   #60
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have you heard anything good about gold standard 100% whey protien? thats what im currently using
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