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Old 09-06-2009, 06:09 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
I wholeheartedly agree Chris, but I'm going to put the same challenge to you that I put to the others:

Provide points, evidence, examples, topics of discussion. Back your position. I respect you (and have learned quite a bit from you on this board) and would be interested in your input.

Why, when it comes to this topic, is everyone more intent on throwing insults than discussing, rationally, the positions and issues? This name-calling-first method is what has Washington screwed up in the first place.
Im too tired to give any resoning behind anything I say. That being said, Here are some examples:
EPA
CPS (CPS is a good thing, but it can be done better privatly)
the UN
Police
Fire
Schools
 
Old 09-06-2009, 06:10 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
Let me make my own analogy - who would you trust more with your life savings - someone who had nothing to gain by stealing it, or someone who stood to gain it all by stealing it?
I don't follow that analogy at all

Who stands nothing to gain by stealing it and who stands all to gain by stealing it?
 
Old 09-06-2009, 06:10 PM   #23
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remember guys, lets keep it civilized up in here
 
Old 09-06-2009, 06:10 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fghtngsquirrel View Post
I don't believe the current administration was anticipating such a resistance to the health care bill(s) they have tried to pass. It would help if they would all read the damn things for starters...isn't that their job? The national government was meant to keep the individual states in balance, not try to provide something for the whole country. If health care was a "right", then why haven't Americans had it from the start?
What resistance? The only resistance is in Congress. Amongst the public 77% (give or take the margin of error) support a public option. SurveyUSA has the results for you to read right here:

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/Poll...8-62b9d1ba8693

As surveyed in August.

The only reason there is resistance in congress is because many senators and representatives from both parties are being paid to resist.
 
Old 09-06-2009, 06:12 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by dgerm View Post
I don't follow that analogy at all

Who stands nothing to gain by stealing it and who stands all to gain by stealing it?
A nonprofit/government entity has nothing to gain by denying care, as the money is budgeted for that department and has to be spent on health care.

A for-profit private entity stands to roll any money they don't pay for care into profit for their shareholders and employees.

More understandable?
 
Old 09-06-2009, 06:12 PM   #26
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Old 09-06-2009, 06:12 PM   #27
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Old 09-06-2009, 06:13 PM   #28
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
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Old 09-06-2009, 06:14 PM   #29
Ka-freakin'-BOOM!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
What resistance? The only resistance is in Congress. Amongst the public 77% (give or take the margin of error) support a public option. SurveyUSA has the results for you to read right here:

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/Poll...8-62b9d1ba8693

As surveyed in August.

The only reason there is resistance in congress is because many senators and representatives from both parties are being paid to resist.
You must not see the Americans who are voicing their opinions at town hall meetings, tea parties all around the country, a decline in the president's approval rating, etc. Oh wait, these Americans are all being paid or planted as well, right?

I work for the state of Florida, and I receive assistance with my medical insurance, as do my fellow officers. However, they are risking their lives daily to have this luxury, while others are sitting at home complaining about being unemployed and wanting the government to pay for their stuff. Where does that money come from? Us.
 
Old 09-06-2009, 06:14 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
A nonprofit/government entity has nothing to gain by denying care, as the money is budgeted for that department and has to be spent on health care.

A for-profit private entity stands to roll any money they don't pay for care into profit for their shareholders and employees.

More understandable?
It is clear now, but anyone is VERY naive to think that the governments has nothing to gain by denying care. First off, where is the money going to come from? What happens when all the money budgeted runs out? They either start denying care, or they do what the administration has done the entire time in office, print more of without anything to back it.
 
Old 09-06-2009, 06:15 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SecretSquirrel View Post
WHEN THE FUCK DID I SAY ANYTHING DEROGATORY TOWARDS FD/PD/Military?
Go fuck yourself for trying to put words in my mouth and make me out to be a bad guy because I disagree with your naivity.
Right here:


You responded to my quote here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
The postal service, fire depts, police depts, state universities, public libraries, the army, the navy, the air force, Depts of Transportation, TSA, OSHA, and others are common examples of publicly administered industries that out-competed the private sector attempts to move into their service areas. Maybe not TSA and OSHA, but then if the private sector does everything better, why were watchdog agencies created in the first place? Supposedly these private entities would be better at policing their own safety...unless they make a better margin to do without.
By saying:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SecretSquirrel View Post
Wow... you name those entities as examples of the government doing right?
You're not even worth my time responding. I'll be nice for the forum's sake and just end my participation of this discussion rather than telling you what I think of your brain capacity.

You did not discriminate or delineate between those entities, you lumped them all together. You imply that they are all poor examples of the government doing well. Therefore, you disparaged the armed services and community service depts. listed.

I did not put words in your mouth, you made the inference yourself. If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at yourself.
 
Old 09-06-2009, 06:17 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
Right here:


You responded to my quote here:



By saying:




You did not discriminate or delineate between those entities, you lumped them all together. You imply that they are all poor examples of the government doing well. Therefore, you disparaged the armed services and community service depts. listed.

I did not put words in your mouth, you made the inference yourself. If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at yourself.
Wow I respected you and your arguments up until this post
 
Old 09-06-2009, 06:17 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fghtngsquirrel View Post
You must not see the Americans who are voicing their opinions at town hall meetings, tea parties all around the country, a decline in the president's approval rating, etc. Oh wait, these Americans are all being paid or planted as well, right?
Not at all. They are, I would assume, the 23% on the other side of that poll. They just like to scream loudly and pretend "socialism" and "fascism" mean the same thing rather than discuss the issue.

Quote:
I work for the state of Florida, and I receive assistance with my medical insurance, as do my fellow officers. However, they are risking their lives daily to have this luxury, while others are sitting at home complaining about being unemployed and wanting the government to pay for their stuff. Where does that money come from? Us.
I find it rather a stretch that you know for a fact the context of why everyone without health insurance in Florida is in that predicament. I think you are letting your personal worst experiences cloud your thought process.
 
Old 09-06-2009, 06:17 PM   #34
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Old 09-06-2009, 06:18 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by dgerm View Post
Wow I respected you and your arguments up until this post
Why? All I did was point out what he said. If that wasn't the impression he wanted to give, he's welcome to clarify the issue.

Do you disagree that he implied that those entities were not good examples of government run departments?
 
Old 09-06-2009, 06:19 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgerm View Post
It is clear now, but anyone is VERY naive to think that the governments has nothing to gain by denying care. First off, where is the money going to come from? What happens when all the money budgeted runs out? They either start denying care, or they do what the administration has done the entire time in office, print more of without anything to back it.
They would have drawbacks yes, but they don't personally gain anything. It's not naive to think they have nothing to gain by denying care, because they DON'T.

It WOULD be naive to think care would never be denied. But I am NOT making that argument at all.
 
Old 09-06-2009, 06:20 PM   #37
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Look at social security as well, a program that the government has been in charge of. They started pulling money from it to pay other stuff, and by the time I'm old enough to get it, there won't be any money to give. Go government.
 
Old 09-06-2009, 06:21 PM   #38
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Old 09-06-2009, 06:21 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
Why? All I did was point out what he said. If that wasn't the impression he wanted to give, he's welcome to clarify the issue.

Do you disagree that he implied that those entities were not good examples of government run departments?
I entirely disagree he implied that. You are just as guilty as him in lumping everything together. You took a cheap shot at him that was totally baseless when he didn't pick apart every single piece of your post, when he had the class and restraint to bow out of the thread and leave you be
 
Old 09-06-2009, 06:21 PM   #40
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrews View Post
Why? All I did was point out what he said. If that wasn't the impression he wanted to give, he's welcome to clarify the issue.

Do you disagree that he implied that those entities were not good examples of government run departments?
SS is one of the biggest supporters of the military, and military peeps I have seen. His post had NO disrespect tward them. I think its bad form that you said he disrespected them.
 
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