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Old 08-10-2011, 10:47 PM   #1
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Anyone work for OSHA ?

Need some one who is familiar with "confined space" regulations.
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Old 08-11-2011, 04:57 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topgun155 View Post
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...ards&p_id=9797

This should answer all your questions. Lol
That's actually very helpful and addressed several of my concerns.
Appreciate it.
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Old 08-11-2011, 04:59 AM   #5
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Whats this for? You going to confined space training?
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Old 08-11-2011, 04:59 AM   #6
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I'm in charge of confined space tests/cards in our plant, but do not work for OSHA.....what's up, maybe I can help?
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yotamikez View Post
Whats this for? You going to confined space training?
Yes. And lock out tag out.
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matic View Post
Yes. And lock out tag out.
Oh man I did that shit a while ago (water plant) pretty easy. I have to do both at the start of the year and this year I will be cleaning the inside of some tanks so its needed. Funny story right after lock out tag out training someone fucked up and removed another guys tag... (not me)
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:20 AM   #9
Matic [OP] Matic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warputer View Post
I'm in charge of confined space tests/cards in our plant, but do not work for OSHA.....what's up, maybe I can help?
Just curious about training costs for confined space and lock out/tag out procedures. I work on a large machine called a grit booth that uses a plasma/aluminum oxide material to grit compressor wheels for gas turbines.
Below there is a forced air vacuum system that reclaims the "grit" and sends it back thru the system to the hopper. The pit below the booth is probably 12x16 and 10 ft deep.
It's always been a "confined" space for the 15 yrs that I know of.
Recently we have had trouble with either a blockage or weak vacuum that is not reclaiming the grit to send back to the hopper.
Work orders have been put in since "08" about this problem and maintenance can't seem to fix the issue. They have always came down, lock out/tagged the control box. Red taped the area off. Donned resperators and oxygen meters and decended into the pit and shoved the grit to the areas where there is vacuum.

I find out last nite that they are now talking about "declassifying" the pit as a "confined space" and are discussing sending us machine operators down to do the job because basically maintenance is to inept to figure out if it's a vacuum problem or blockage in a line somewhere preventing the grit from reclaiming.

Just curious "who" defines a confined space. OSHA or my Company.
And Who can and cannot say that it is "not" a confined space anymore.

I don't mind going down in the pit and shoveling some grit around but if the issue was fixed, no one would have to be down there in the first place.

I hear lock out/tag out training is like 80 hrs with regular intervals of new training and pretty costly to keep everyone up to date.

Just trying to justify having maintenance fix the issue that has eluded them for the past few years (or laziness to actually fix the problem) as opposed to training/certifying 4 employees in LO/TO procedures and keep everyone up to date and safe.
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:23 AM   #10
Matic [OP] Matic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yotamikez View Post
Oh man I did that shit a while ago (water plant) pretty easy. I have to do both at the start of the year and this year I will be cleaning the inside of some tanks so its needed. Funny story right after lock out tag out training someone fucked up and removed another guys tag... (not me)
That's an instant pink slip where I work. As is walking under red tape without your name being on the card.

Seen it happen twice.
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:27 AM   #11
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OSHA defines what a confined space is. And the space you are describing sounds more like a "permit required confined space".


http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/confinedspaces/index.html

Quote:
Many workplaces contain spaces that are considered "confined" because their configurations hinder the activities of employees who must enter, work in, and exit them. A confined space has limited or restricted means for entry or exit, and it is not designed for continuous employee occupancy. Confined spaces include, but are not limited to underground vaults, tanks, storage bins, manholes, pits, silos, process vessels, and pipelines. OSHA uses the term "permit-required confined space" (permit space) to describe a confined space that has one or more of the following characteristics: contains or has the potential to contain a hazardous atmosphere; contains a material that has the potential to engulf an entrant; has walls that converge inward or floors that slope downward and taper into a smaller area which could trap or asphyxiate an entrant; or contains any other recognized safety or health hazard, such as unguarded machinery, exposed live wires, or heat stress.

Confined space hazards are addressed in specific standards for the general industry and shipyard employment.
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:28 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Matic View Post
That's an instant pink slip where I work. As is walking under red tape without your name being on the card.

Seen it happen twice.
Yeah my work environment is pretty easy going. The two guys worked it out without getting management involved. What happened was (if you care) we have 5 ton ceiling cranes and one side was "missing" 4 bolts that hold it in place. Well what the guy who locked it out and tagged it out didn't realize is the company that installed the cranes welded instead of using bolts on that side for some unknown reason. Well he was 2nd shift and the next day an inspector came by and said it was a. ok. to operate so 1st shift took the tag off .

Its odd you have to pay for your training, are you in private field?
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:33 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98tacoma27 View Post
OSHA defines what a confined space is. And the space you are describing sounds more like a "permit required confined space".


http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/confinedspaces/index.html
Sounds about right.
I'll also have to check the msds tommorow on Aluminum oxide plasma.

The other machine I work on uses aluminum oxide as well (white duralum). It's a wet slurry machine where as the machine I am currently is a dry Oxide.

The white duralum is very hazardous in mist form so I can't imagine that this dry aluminum oxide is much safer.
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:38 AM   #14
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Aluminum Oxide is pretty inert. It's used on sandpaper.

http://www.dawson-macdonald.com/medi...minumOxide.pdf
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:39 AM   #15
Matic [OP] Matic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yotamikez View Post
Yeah my work environment is pretty easy going. The two guys worked it out without getting management involved. What happened was (if you care) we have 5 ton ceiling cranes and one side was "missing" 4 bolts that hold it in place. Well what the guy who locked it out and tagged it out didn't realize is the company that installed the cranes welded instead of using bolts on that side for some unknown reason. Well he was 2nd shift and the next day an inspector came by and said it was a. ok. to operate so 1st shift took the tag off .

Its odd you have to pay for your training, are you in private field?
No. G.E. Energy. Training will be provided.
Certified class 2 crane operator as well. There are 15 5 ton cranes in my area and I also run the 10 ton/60 ton overhead.

The smallest parts I work on are maybe 2000 lbs. The largest is 18,500 lbs.

Yea I can see the issue with your story. Sometimes we have gung ho ops leaders that are all about production and dont realize you can't be effing around with LO/TO.
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98tacoma27 View Post
Aluminum Oxide is pretty inert. It's used on sandpaper.

http://www.dawson-macdonald.com/medi...minumOxide.pdf
Interesting.
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Old 08-11-2011, 06:05 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matic View Post
No. G.E. Energy. Training will be provided.
Certified class 2 crane operator as well. There are 15 5 ton cranes in my area and I also run the 10 ton/60 ton overhead.

The smallest parts I work on are maybe 2000 lbs. The largest is 18,500 lbs.

Yea I can see the issue with your story. Sometimes we have gung ho ops leaders that are all about production and dont realize you can't be effing around with LO/TO.
Yeah he was a noob
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Old 08-11-2011, 07:35 AM   #18
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You can remove someone else's lock BUT there are guidelines to doing so. You must make a documented attempt at contact the person whose lock you wish to remove, at least that is how we do it. The minimal guideline says nothing about removing a lock that is not yours.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...ARDS&p_id=9805
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:32 AM   #19
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12x16 & 10' deep would definetly be classified as a confined entry space..... That would be enough for gases to settle in the area & cause harm to employees. Our company is more stringent on it's safety standards than OSHA though.

Here is what OSHA considers a permit required space:


A permit space is a confined space that has
one or more of the following features: it has
or may contain a hazardous atmosphere; it
contains a material that can engulf a person
who enters; it has an inside design that
could trap or asphyxiate a person who
enters (inwardly converging walls, or a floor
that slopes downward to a smaller section);
or it has any other serious safety or health
hazards.....linky : http://www.osha.gov/OshDoc/data_Hurr...t_confined.pdf


I don't see how your company can ask guys to enter this area with out at least a proper oxygen/PEL/combustion test done each time......could be very bad stuff for all involved.
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