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Old 02-27-2014, 09:31 PM   #141
Forster46 [OP] Forster46 is offline
Very nice how much?
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I didn't expect this much activity on this thread. I do like the fact that the debating is actually knowledgeable and not just yelling at eachother.

The reason I posted this video was because it really is extremely difficult to tell what the outcome should be, or who was in the right, or what all was happening that I didn't quite understand. You guys on here are knowledgeable people and I just wanted to see what everyone thought. It really is interesting to see. As far as the outcome for the officer, I'm not really sure what I think. I don't have the brains to sit and debate with someone about it. So that's why I have stayed out of this.
 
Old 02-28-2014, 12:27 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheeseit View Post
I'm not saying that it is an easy job far from it. Don't get me wrong I greatly appreciate what everyone sacrifices to do what you folks do.

What I take issue with is the 0.00001% who give the profession a bad name. I think the cameras on LEO's would be a positive thing for them because
A) it would clear them from any wrong doing when they are in the right.
B) it would remove any cloudiness from a situation.

It would probably give people a new perspective to what is actually happening in a situation like this when it's shot from a PoV angle instead of by random by standers. Just out of curiosity how would you feel about a camera on the LEO's person?
My department got a government grant for body cam's. Me and about 15 other guys have been guinea pigs and have been wearing them for a few weeks. The nice thing about them, is they pick up most audio, whereas my dash cam works great when I'm outside, but as soon as I go inside, the mic doesn't pick up much.

They have the same problem though, any time you are running or fighting with someone, all you hear is static. Same thing with the video. The camera is hooked to the middle of my shirt, along the buttons. So when I run, the camera bounces all over. In the times that I've fought with people with it on, it doesn't pick up much detail of the fight, until its over and I'm looking at the guy handcuffed. Most times you can't tell what technique I used, or what the bad guy had specifically done.

Overall, as far as recording what we say or do, its probably better than our dash cams. I don't have any problem with them, but then again I've never tried to cover anything up. However, if you think body cams are the solution to all LEO problems, your dreaming. Its just like anything else in life, if people want to do something wrong, they are going to no matter what deterrents you put in place. Drugs are illegal, people still get them. Make guns illegal, people will still get them if they want them bad enough. Same thing applies to police work, if someone makes up there mind to be a "bad cop" its going to happen regardless. Personally, I don't necessarily view it as a "cop" thing, as much as I view it as a "human" thing.
 
Old 02-28-2014, 06:13 PM   #143
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Just gonna throw this out there.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.hip...ge%20Study.pdf
87.5% reduction in complaints and 59% less use of force incidents when LEO's are wearing cameras.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gopens48 View Post
My department got a government grant for body cam's. Me and about 15 other guys have been guinea pigs and have been wearing them for a few weeks. The nice thing about them, is they pick up most audio, whereas my dash cam works great when I'm outside, but as soon as I go inside, the mic doesn't pick up much.

They have the same problem though, any time you are running or fighting with someone, all you hear is static. Same thing with the video. The camera is hooked to the middle of my shirt, along the buttons. So when I run, the camera bounces all over. In the times that I've fought with people with it on, it doesn't pick up much detail of the fight, until its over and I'm looking at the guy handcuffed. Most times you can't tell what technique I used, or what the bad guy had specifically done.

Overall, as far as recording what we say or do, its probably better than our dash cams. I don't have any problem with them, but then again I've never tried to cover anything up. However, if you think body cams are the solution to all LEO problems, your dreaming. Its just like anything else in life, if people want to do something wrong, they are going to no matter what deterrents you put in place. Drugs are illegal, people still get them. Make guns illegal, people will still get them if they want them bad enough. Same thing applies to police work, if someone makes up there mind to be a "bad cop" its going to happen regardless. Personally, I don't necessarily view it as a "cop" thing, as much as I view it as a "human" thing.
I agree with you about it not being a cop thing but a human thing. Even if doesn't completely solve everything I think it's pretty easy to see that it would be helpful for everyone.

It sucks that there are issues with the audio and video though. Maybe it's just because it's only an early prototype and it will improve with time?
 
Old 03-01-2014, 12:25 PM   #145
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I don't know how some of you can go on the defensive for the firefighter? A off duty cop can arrest anyone at any time. This guy was in the wrong otherwise he would not have ran. It was all routine for the officer until the firefighter started banging his head on the concrete, so if you can sit behind your computer and say that the cop acted out of line and the badge got to his head and ignorant comments like that then I hope you get in the same situation one day. Because I promise you that you will be doing the same to protect your life. Some of you people are absolutely pathetic..
 
Old 03-01-2014, 12:33 PM   #146
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People standing idle, mouthing off their pretentious ideals, not having any knowledge of the reason for the officer doing his job. A simple plea for help, had they acted none of this would of happened. Instead they just keep filming what will be a life altering event.
Being American these days is a disgusting shame. Truly heartbreaking.

Also, just because he's a firefighter, doesn't mean he's a saint and should get special treatment.
 
Old 03-01-2014, 12:36 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Operator View Post
People standing idle, mouthing off their pretentious ideals, not having any knowledge of the reason for the officer doing his job. A simple plea for help, had they acted none of this would of happened. Instead they just keep filming what will be a life altering event.
Being American these days is a disgusting shame. Truly heartbreaking.

Also, just because he's a firefighter, doesn't mean he's a saint and should get special treatment.
This is the world we live in today, any self respecting American that I know would have put the damn camera down and gone over there and helped the officer subdue the suspect.
 
Old 03-01-2014, 02:56 PM   #149
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At what point in the video did officer ask for help?
Does really it matter? About the point the officer was getting his ass beat down probably would have been a good time to jump in.

It bothers me that people stand around when stuff goes down. Seems like people today more than ever are stupefied drones, about the most these people can do is take out their phone and record like a pavlovian dog. Mass psychosis.
 
Old 03-01-2014, 03:15 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Buckoma View Post
Does really it matter? About the point the officer was getting his ass beat down probably would have been a good time to jump in.

It bothers me that people stand around when stuff goes down. Seems like people today more than ever are stupefied drones, about the most these people can do is take out their phone and record like a pavlovian dog. Mass psychosis.

I can see where having them call 911 for backup would have been a good thing to do. However, the whole incident from the time they started filming to the end was, I believe, less than a minute. From the time the subject got on top and started beating the cop until he was shot was just a few seconds. Realistically I don't see how these bystanders could have had any effect on the situation.

I can't imagine very many scenarios where having civilian bystanders jump into an altercation like this would be looked at as a good thing -- especially by the cop who now has additional participants in the situation with unknown intentions and abilities.
I would think staying out of the way and calling 911 is the best course of action in 99% of any conflict situation.
 
Old 03-01-2014, 03:42 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckoma View Post
Does really it matter? About the point the officer was getting his ass beat down probably would have been a good time to jump in.
Other member beat me to the punch, thing go down hill about 15-18 seconds before shot. Very small window of time. Any time before that, if you have approached you probably would have very negative response from the officer. "get the f88K back" or something like that. If officer said HELP ME PLEASE, i think average American would jump to action.
 
Old 03-01-2014, 05:36 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonNH View Post
I can see where having them call 911 for backup would have been a good thing to do. However, the whole incident from the time they started filming to the end was, I believe, less than a minute. From the time the subject got on top and started beating the cop until he was shot was just a few seconds. Realistically I don't see how these bystanders could have had any effect on the situation.

I can't imagine very many scenarios where having civilian bystanders jump into an altercation like this would be looked at as a good thing -- especially by the cop who now has additional participants in the situation with unknown intentions and abilities.
I would think staying out of the way and calling 911 is the best course of action in 99% of any conflict situation.
You're probably right about this situation although if someone tackled the perp when he started wailing things may have turned out better. I guess my statement was more about these situations in general, when people just record or ignore something instead of helping someone. As far as the bold statement, I think 99% is way too high and it's on a case by case basis. I have a pretty strong sense of citizenship which compels me to action if I believe the situation merits.
 
Old 03-01-2014, 05:43 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckoma View Post
You're probably right about this situation although if someone tackled the perp when he started wailing things may have turned out better. I guess my statement was more about these situations in general, when people just record or ignore something instead of helping someone. As far as the bold statement, I think 99% is way too high and it's on a case by case basis. I have a pretty strong sense of citizenship which compels me to action if I believe the situation merits.
They recorded it because they are anti-cop, that's why she was arguing in the first place "what did he even do!?" and "look at his aggressive stance." They were going to make a big deal out of this incident even if shots weren't fired.
 
Old 03-01-2014, 05:55 PM   #154
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If I saw someone wrestling a uniformed officer, I would stop whatever I was doing and help the officer after I made it clear I was going to help him by yelling it. If the officer is winning, the other guy will be subdued and arrested. He will still get his day in court. If the officer loses, there's no telling what's going to happen. Will the other guy walk away, or will he take it a step further and go for the officer's weapons after he can no longer resist? Kudos to the officer for having the balls and awareness to recognize when he was about to lose the fight and end it. I wish he was in better shape and had super powers like everyone thinks happens when you put on a uniform, but he couldn't win.

I wish I could hit the person videotaping in the face with a brick for standing there doing nothing. The deceased, whether a fireman or not, sounds like a real turd for fighting a uniformed officer. He obviously couldn't control his alcohol intake, and it got him into a situation he wouldn't walk away from. Adults shouldn't act like that when drinking. I've been fall down drunk plenty of times, but I never had the mentality to fight an officer.
 
Old 03-01-2014, 08:36 PM   #155
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I had to process a crime scene at a bar, my first solo crime scene BTW, where a guy was killed with one punch to his melon. That's right, one hit killed the guy, dropped like a ton of bricks according to witnesses. If the officer felt like he was going unconscious, who the fuck are you to say otherwise?

This is the only line of work where people who have never done the job think they know exactly how to do the job.
 
Old 03-01-2014, 09:51 PM   #156
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This is the only line of work where people who have never done the job think they know exactly how to do the job.
And we are gonna end it right here

 
Old 03-01-2014, 09:54 PM   #157
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