Mike "Wuzzy121". Rest in peace, brother

Go Back   Tacoma World Forums > Tacoma Garage > Lighting

Notices

HELP! Possible Short? Hella 500 install trouble

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-07-2011, 07:15 PM   #1
Member
holeinone604 is on a distinguished road
Joined: May 2010, #36862
Location: Great White North
Gender: Male
Posts: 50
holeinone604's Tacoma Gallery
HELP! Possible Short? Hella 500 install trouble

So I installed hella 500 black magics behind the grill and followed this guide to a tee: http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/lig...ow-w-pics.html

The only difference that I did with the wiring of them was I drew power for my switch from the fuse box in the cabin of the truck using an "add a fuse" pictured below:


I put the add a fuse into the 10A - Tail slot.

So this was my first time really wiring anything so I did a lot of research and followed all the instructions as closely as I could. Everything has been fine for the past couple weeks but there was the odd rare occasion that I thought I could smell a really faint burnt/dusty smell. Visually all the wires looked fine and everything was working fine so I chalked this up to my paranoia.

The fog light housings I ordered arrived from ebay so I poped them in a couple nights ago. Truck is all prewired for the fogs so it was a really easy install with a stock OEM switch and OEM Denso relay for fuse box under the hood. Only add on to this was the DDM raptor 35W, 3000K kit (it was a really easy plug and play add on though).

All is working fine both hellas and the fogs.

Today I go to fire up the truck after its been parked in the cold for about 9 hours and it was really slow to turn over. I probably could have got it to turn over on the first attempt if I held on a little longer but didn't and it fired up on the second attempt after some noticeable delay.

Whats the problem the new OEM fogs with the DDM kit or my wiring job on the hellas?

I assumed my wiring job so I have disconnected the power to the switch and the power to the relay from the battery until I figure things out. I have started the truck a few times since coming home and it fires up as normal and all the lights worked fine up until I disconnected the power to the hellas. I didn't want to mess with a slow leak until I get some feedback on this. Does it sound like a short of some sort?

Thanks in advance for feedback!

If it helps here is a rough pic of how I wired everything up: (ground from switch is in cabin behind kick panel not though firewall as shown in picture)


Used this switch:
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 08:20 PM   #2
Senior Member
wing103 has much to be proud ofwing103 has much to be proud ofwing103 has much to be proud ofwing103 has much to be proud ofwing103 has much to be proud ofwing103 has much to be proud ofwing103 has much to be proud ofwing103 has much to be proud ofwing103 has much to be proud of
 
wing103's Avatar
Joined: Jul 2008, #7807
Location: Boston
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,025
wing103's Tacoma Gallery
Send a message via ICQ to wing103 Send a message via AIM to wing103 Send a message via MSN to wing103 Send a message via Yahoo to wing103 Send a message via Skype™ to wing103
So did you blow the fuse? My theory is I believe you did not need a relay for it.
I install the same set up with a 55w 6000k on it, but I have not do the switch part yet, since it is too cold outside.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 08:27 PM   #3
First Class White Trash
achirdo is one of the sharper tools in the shedachirdo is one of the sharper tools in the shedachirdo is one of the sharper tools in the shedachirdo is one of the sharper tools in the shedachirdo is one of the sharper tools in the shedachirdo is one of the sharper tools in the shedachirdo is one of the sharper tools in the shedachirdo is one of the sharper tools in the shedachirdo is one of the sharper tools in the shedachirdo is one of the sharper tools in the shedachirdo is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
achirdo's Avatar
Name: Adam
Joined: Apr 2010, #34819
Location: North DFW
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,074
achirdo's Tacoma Gallery
I'm confused about what the problem actually is. Do the lights still turn on or doesthe fuse blow?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 08:30 PM   #4
Senior Member
epa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shed
Name: Eduardo
Joined: Mar 2009, #14828
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,942
epa4wd's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by wing103 View Post
So did you blow the fuse? My theory is I believe you did not need a relay for it.
I install the same set up with a 55w 6000k on it, but I have not do the switch part yet, since it is too cold outside.
for the hellas its better if he uses the relay. The switch he used is rated at 21A @ 14V, but I would not risk it. Using a relay is safer.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 08:35 PM   #5
Senior Member
epa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shed
Name: Eduardo
Joined: Mar 2009, #14828
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,942
epa4wd's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by achirdo View Post
I'm confused about what the problem actually is. Do the lights still turn on or doesthe fuse blow?
From what I've talked with him trough PMs, fuses did not blow. From what I understand he had problems starting the truck as he stated in his post, but I honestly don't know how the wiring could be related to causing that, unless something is drawing power when the truck is off thus draining the battery a bit, but from that wiring diagram, all power would be cutoff when the truck is off.

That wiring diagram is correct asuming they are all connected to the appropiate pins on the relay and switch.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2011, 12:11 PM   #6
Member
holeinone604 is on a distinguished road
Joined: May 2010, #36862
Location: Great White North
Gender: Male
Posts: 50
holeinone604's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by achirdo View Post
I'm confused about what the problem actually is. Do the lights still turn on or doesthe fuse blow?
No blown fuse, lights have worked fine at all times.

Problem is the truck being very very slow to turn over the other day. My thoughts are something has drained the battery to cause this. I can't help but think it must have something to do with the lights I have installed. Since I have disconnected power to the relay and switch for the hellas I have not had any problem.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2011, 12:13 PM   #7
Member
holeinone604 is on a distinguished road
Joined: May 2010, #36862
Location: Great White North
Gender: Male
Posts: 50
holeinone604's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by epa4wd View Post
From what I've talked with him trough PMs, fuses did not blow. From what I understand he had problems starting the truck as he stated in his post, but I honestly don't know how the wiring could be related to causing that, unless something is drawing power when the truck is off thus draining the battery a bit, but from that wiring diagram, all power would be cutoff when the truck is off.

That wiring diagram is correct asuming they are all connected to the appropiate pins on the relay and switch.
Yeah I was really careful to connect all the pins to the correct locations on the relay and switch. Would it even work if they weren't connected to the right locations on the switch?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2011, 12:17 PM   #8
Member
holeinone604 is on a distinguished road
Joined: May 2010, #36862
Location: Great White North
Gender: Male
Posts: 50
holeinone604's Tacoma Gallery
Just curious since I installed the OEM fogs with the DDM kit (35W, 3000K) I have been running them a lot while driving (early morning and night).

Would frequent/extended use of the OEM fogs with the DDM kit be causing an excessive drain on the battery?

Is it possible a bad connection somewhere in my wiring of the hellas would cause an excessive drain on the battery while at the same time the lights work fine?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2011, 01:16 PM   #9
Senior Member
84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
84Hilux's Avatar
Name: Gary
Joined: Jul 2010, #39877
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Gender: Male
Posts: 544
84Hilux's Tacoma Gallery
Have you had any problems since the first time you had weak cranking? I think you just ran the battery low while you were installing the lights. I know when I did my install, I ran the lights for about 20 minutes without the engine running. Then I went for just a short hop with the lights on to see how visibility was increased. A short drive won't be enough to charge the battery back up.

A relay is just a heavy duty switch with automatic control. If your lights turn off when the switches are off, you have no draw on your high current loops. If there is a problem, it would have to be on the switch loops. As I mentioned in my PM, possible current drain on the switch side could be the illumination bulbs or a reverse current diode. I think you have probably eliminated the bulbs by now- make sure they are off when they should be. Reverse current diodes are installed in some relays to dissipate a reverse current flow that is generated by the relay coil as it shuts off (when you turn the lights off). I doubt this is the problem, because your battery would be completely dead by now if you had a diode draining power for several days. Also, the switch itself should shut off all power to the relay coil circuit, so even if the diode was in backwards- it would have no effect on battery life.

I am not even sure there is a problem. We have a saying when we are troubleshooting a problem circuit at my work- "Let it develop". If there is a problem, it will get worse and make it easier to pinpoint. If there is not a problem- right on!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2011, 01:20 PM   #10
Senior Member
wing103 has much to be proud ofwing103 has much to be proud ofwing103 has much to be proud ofwing103 has much to be proud ofwing103 has much to be proud ofwing103 has much to be proud ofwing103 has much to be proud ofwing103 has much to be proud ofwing103 has much to be proud of
 
wing103's Avatar
Joined: Jul 2008, #7807
Location: Boston
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,025
wing103's Tacoma Gallery
Send a message via ICQ to wing103 Send a message via AIM to wing103 Send a message via MSN to wing103 Send a message via Yahoo to wing103 Send a message via Skype™ to wing103
Please check the battery when your truck is in off position, use a voltage tester to check how much voltage you have, you should read 14v to 15v under normal condition, than turn on the truck, and do the reading again, if it remaind the same, than it should be fine.
But my guess is the add on fuse that you install, what is the orginal fuse for what function? that may casue the problem. Since the first time I have the fuse install on the fog light fuse location, as soon as I turn on the (HID 35w) fog light with the (HID 55w) Hella, it will blow the fuse out. And than I relocate the fuse to another location with 30A, and it work fine for me.
I hope this can help you out.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2011, 11:10 PM   #12
Misplaced Texan
JTanner is a glorious beacon of lightJTanner is a glorious beacon of lightJTanner is a glorious beacon of lightJTanner is a glorious beacon of lightJTanner is a glorious beacon of lightJTanner is a glorious beacon of light
 
JTanner's Avatar
Navy: Military Corrections
Joined: Aug 2010, #41958
Location: Temecula, CA
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 105
JTanner's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by holeinone604 View Post
Yeah I was really careful to connect all the pins to the correct locations on the relay and switch. Would it even work if they weren't connected to the right locations on the switch?

make sure you have the right positions on the switch... it matters.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2011, 11:38 PM   #13
Member
holeinone604 is on a distinguished road
Joined: May 2010, #36862
Location: Great White North
Gender: Male
Posts: 50
holeinone604's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by 84Hilux View Post
Have you had any problems since the first time you had weak cranking? I think you just ran the battery low while you were installing the lights. I know when I did my install, I ran the lights for about 20 minutes without the engine running. Then I went for just a short hop with the lights on to see how visibility was increased. A short drive won't be enough to charge the battery back up.

A relay is just a heavy duty switch with automatic control. If your lights turn off when the switches are off, you have no draw on your high current loops. If there is a problem, it would have to be on the switch loops. As I mentioned in my PM, possible current drain on the switch side could be the illumination bulbs or a reverse current diode. I think you have probably eliminated the bulbs by now- make sure they are off when they should be. Reverse current diodes are installed in some relays to dissipate a reverse current flow that is generated by the relay coil as it shuts off (when you turn the lights off). I doubt this is the problem, because your battery would be completely dead by now if you had a diode draining power for several days. Also, the switch itself should shut off all power to the relay coil circuit, so even if the diode was in backwards- it would have no effect on battery life.

I am not even sure there is a problem. We have a saying when we are troubleshooting a problem circuit at my work- "Let it develop". If there is a problem, it will get worse and make it easier to pinpoint. If there is not a problem- right on!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTanner View Post
make sure you have the right positions on the switch... it matters.
Thanks again!
Power to the switch and relay is re-connected so we will see if this problem continues or was a one off freak occurrence.
Yeah the illumination of the switch I am using is only on when the switch is turned on. If the switch is off, illumination is off.

I followed this guide to the three pins on the back of the rocker switch:
http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd...-switch-3.html
Terminal #2 - to power (+)
Terminal #3 - to lights or relay (depending how your lights are wired up)
Terminal #4 - ground (-)

Can anyone with knowledge of this switch confirm this is correct?
Would it even work if I had them on the wrong pins?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 03:15 AM   #14
Senior Member
84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed84Hilux is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
84Hilux's Avatar
Name: Gary
Joined: Jul 2010, #39877
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Gender: Male
Posts: 544
84Hilux's Tacoma Gallery
You can tell by looking at the way the switch moves that pushing in the top causes the contact plate to slide across the bottom 2 terminals. Those are the main contacts of the switch- the top terminal is just ground for the light bulb. I don't think it really matters which wire is going to the bottom 2 terminals(except not ground)- you could swap them with no ill effects. One way might cause the light to be on all the time though. As long as ground is the top terminal, you should be OK.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 12:22 PM   #15
Member
holeinone604 is on a distinguished road
Joined: May 2010, #36862
Location: Great White North
Gender: Male
Posts: 50
holeinone604's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by 84Hilux View Post
You can tell by looking at the way the switch moves that pushing in the top causes the contact plate to slide across the bottom 2 terminals. Those are the main contacts of the switch- the top terminal is just ground for the light bulb. I don't think it really matters which wire is going to the bottom 2 terminals(except not ground)- you could swap them with no ill effects. One way might cause the light to be on all the time though. As long as ground is the top terminal, you should be OK.
Yep pretty sure top was ground. Will check tonight.
So far so good and the problem hasn't resurfaced so I will keep my fingers crossed. Don't think it was due to install of the lights that framed battery as I had them in and running for a couple weeks with no issues. Just a couple days after adding the oem fogs with ddm kit.

I will dig out the voltmeter and check the battery tonight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 12:52 PM   #16
Senior Member
epa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shedepa4wd is one of the sharper tools in the shed
Name: Eduardo
Joined: Mar 2009, #14828
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,942
epa4wd's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by wing103 View Post
Please check the battery when your truck is in off position, use a voltage tester to check how much voltage you have, you should read 14v to 15v under normal condition, than turn on the truck, and do the reading again, if it remaind the same, than it should be fine.
But my guess is the add on fuse that you install, what is the orginal fuse for what function? that may casue the problem. Since the first time I have the fuse install on the fog light fuse location, as soon as I turn on the (HID 35w) fog light with the (HID 55w) Hella, it will blow the fuse out. And than I relocate the fuse to another location with 30A, and it work fine for me.
I hope this can help you out.
It should have around 12.6V with the truck off
It should have about 13.4-14.X V with the truck on
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 07:11 PM   #17
Member
holeinone604 is on a distinguished road
Joined: May 2010, #36862
Location: Great White North
Gender: Male
Posts: 50
holeinone604's Tacoma Gallery
Double and triple checked everything again and hooked all the power lines to the hellas back up.

So far so good (knock on wood) and the problem has not resurfaced over the last day and a bit...

  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hella 700 vs. Hella 500 mjm540ii Lighting 4 01-04-2012 04:46 PM
Trouble wiring Hella 500s aggieshooter Lighting 7 03-31-2010 02:32 PM
WTT my NEW hella 500's for your Hella 550's rab89 Buy / Sell / Trade 1 03-18-2010 11:23 PM
hella 500 100w bulb trouble sch0enne Lighting 1 06-25-2009 11:20 PM
hella 500's install wildjerseyfirefighter Lighting 7 02-19-2009 08:15 AM


Copyright © 2014 Tacoma Forum. Tacoma World is not owned by, or affiliated with Toyota Motor Corporation.