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-   -   LED Bar wires in with Hella's (http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/lighting/283381-led-bar-wires-hellas.html)

Bengland25 06-22-2013 03:22 PM

LED Bar wires in with Hella's
 
Hey, I am wanting to get some help/information from anyone that willing to help out. Here is whats going on...

I currently have 3 Hella 700F's wired through a relay and then hooked up to my Blue Seas fuse block. I want to add my Blitzpro 21S to the same lines and switches without adding more wire. Is this going to pull too much for what I have while adding it into the same line? trying to run as minimal wire as possible while still being safe and not blowing fuses.

I can provide more information about my setup if needed but I just wanted to know if this is possible and still allow the lights to perform at optimum levels.

Thank you!

EDIT:

The relay is a 40A/14VCD.

The Hellas Specifications:

• Voltage: 12V
• Beam Pattern: Driving
• Light Source: H3 12V/55W Bulb
• Power Consumption: 55W
• Housing Material: ABS
• Optics: Reflector
• Lens Material: Glass
• Connection: Wire Leads
• Bracket: Zinc Coated Steel
• Approval: ECE

The Blitzpro 21s Specifications:

Beam pattern: Mid Range Fill
Waterproof rating: IP67
Length: 21.00 inches
Height: 3.75 inches
Width: 2.75 inches
Lumens: 4060
Consumption: 54 Watts
Voltage range: 12-24V
LED Lifespan: 130,000 hours

I have a Blue Seas Circuit breaker and Fuse Block

Bengland25 06-23-2013 03:14 PM

Anybody?

2000GTacoma 06-23-2013 03:18 PM

what size wire do you have currently running your lights?

Bengland25 06-23-2013 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2000GTacoma (Post 7068164)
what size wire do you have currently running your lights?

Not sure of the gauge, it's just the wiring harness that came with the Hellas.

ProForce 06-23-2013 03:49 PM

Are all 3 Hellas wired together to this one relay and switch?

ProForce 06-23-2013 03:58 PM

Well, each hella light consumes approximately 4.5 amps making your current draw 13-14 amps depending on voltage fluctuation. The Blitzpro consumes nearly the same at 4.4 volts. Adding that inline will make your total draw 17.5-18.5 amps. Your relay is rated for 40amp and your not even to 50% load on it so the relay can handle it no problem. Whatever size fuse is in there now should be replaced to a 25 amp fuse.

Only question remains is what size wore is in there. That's a key factor in this. The equipment is good to go but you have to have the foundation to support it. Pics of wires and relay would be good. Need to know wire size to safely give an answer.

Also note that those harness' are typically designed for pairs of lights and since you have 3 lights on 1 harness its probably already pushing its capacity. But its possible it was designed to handle more.

Bengland25 06-23-2013 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProForce (Post 7068281)
Well, each hella light consumes approximately 4.5 amps making your current draw 13-14 amps depending on voltage fluctuation. The Blitzpro consumes nearly the same at 4.4 volts. Adding that inline will make your total draw 17.5-18.5 amps. Your relay is rated for 40amp and your not even to 50% load on it so the relay can handle it no problem. Whatever size fuse is in there now should be replaced to a 25 amp fuse.

Only question remains is what size wore is in there. That's a key factor in this. The equipment is good to go but you have to have the foundation to support it. Pics of wires and relay would be good. Need to know wire size to safely give an answer.

Also note that those harness' are typically designed for pairs of lights and since you have 3 lights on 1 harness its probably already pushing its capacity. But its possible it was designed to handle more.

This is what it all comes down to, these two little photos! haha

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/...photo1-3-1.jpg

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/...photo2-2-1.jpg

BTW the wire appears to be 14-16G and yes it is all wired to one switch.

ProForce 06-23-2013 05:19 PM

Looks like 14-16 to me. hard to tell though. Well the calculations equal out to this:

0-20 amps of draw from 4-10 feet of wire calls for 12g wire.

If the TOTAL (power only, dont count ground) feet of wire from RELAY-->HELLA1-->HELLA2-->HELLA3-->LED1 is UNDER 4 feet in length, then 14g will work safely. With that said however Im wiling to bet you will have at least 1 foot of wire between each light and if they are all on your bumper then you will still have about 6-7 feet of total power wire total by the time it gets to the relay near the battery.

SO, this will not work. Just using 3 Hellas on that one harness is pushing it already. I would recommend you install 2 harness' and can wire them to the same switch still. OR an even easier route would be to rewire your current harness. The wire that powers the lights now can be removed and upgraded to 12g wire. The ground on each light MUST be the same as the wire power. Then the wire that goes from RELAY-->BATTERY should also be 12g. Then your golden! The relay, switch, and remaining wire does not need to be changed.

ProForce 06-23-2013 05:23 PM

wait a minute, is your lights currently installed an you want to add the LED bar to it or are you about to install all the lights? If its not installed yet, this is an easy an cheap fix. If its already installed you pretty much have to undo and redo the entire install to add the LED bar. Worth it IMO

Bengland25 06-23-2013 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProForce (Post 7068546)
Looks like 14-16 to me. hard to tell though. Well the calculations equal out to this:

0-20 amps of draw from 4-10 feet of wire calls for 12g wire.

If the TOTAL (power only, dont count ground) feet of wire from RELAY-->HELLA1-->HELLA2-->HELLA3-->LED1 is UNDER 4 feet in length, then 14g will work safely. With that said however Im wiling to bet you will have at least 1 foot of wire between each light and if they are all on your bumper then you will still have about 6-7 feet of total power wire total by the time it gets to the relay near the battery.

SO, this will not work. Just using 3 Hellas on that one harness is pushing it already. I would recommend you install 2 harness' and can wire them to the same switch still. OR an even easier route would be to rewire your current harness. The wire that powers the lights now can be removed and upgraded to 12g wire. The ground on each light MUST be the same as the wire power. Then the wire that goes from RELAY-->BATTERY should also be 12g. Then your golden! The relay, switch, and remaining wire does not need to be changed.

So if im following you correctly I only need to swap out my wires that come from the lights to the relay as well as the wires from relay to battery. All other wires that go to the switch and relay are good. Correct?

BTW I will be owing you a nice large beer of sorts when I get out there to do my toolbox! haha thanks buddy

ProForce 06-23-2013 05:29 PM

Note that if you add the LED bar to current wiring, it WILL work... but just because it turns on doesnt mean its safe. Wires and current work like this:

Imagine a garden hose connected to a fire hydrant... whats gonna happens when the water it turned on? The hose will last for a minute then rip open from too much pressure, yes? Well with electricity, that "pressure" is heat. That wire is rated at 105C or 221F. The lights will draw too much current than the copper wire is capable of supplying. That extra current will get hot and eventually melt the insulation on the wire. This will either cause (A) a massive electrical fire (B) the melted wire will expose copper which will short to ground and not blow the fuse which will eventually lead back to (A).

SO, will the lights WORK on this harness, YES! Is it safe to have them on for more than just a couple minutes, NO!

ProForce 06-23-2013 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengland25 (Post 7068571)
So if im following you correctly I only need to swap out my wires that come from the lights to the relay as well as the wires from relay to battery. All other wires that go to the switch and relay are good. Correct?

BTW I will be owing you a nice large beer of sorts when I get out there to do my toolbox! haha thanks buddy

Correct! The wire that goes from relay>light1-4 needs to be 12g. The wire that goes from relay>battery (or fuse box) needs to be 12g. The wires that go from each individual light to ground also need to be 12g.

the wires that go from power(or ground)>switch and switch>relay and relay>ground dont need to be changed. Those are low current wires which only supply a signal. It cant hurt to upgrade the relay>ground as well but its not 100% required.

And remember, your fuse needs to be correct at well. You can try 20amp first and if it works fine then perfect. If it blows, go to 25 but dont go higher than that. the 20amp is good but heat and voltage can both cause current to change, so if they have been on for awhile and everything is hot and then your AC turns on and battery voltage drops real quick than amperage jumps real quick and that spike could cause a blown fuse. Thats why 25 may be better.

ProForce 06-23-2013 05:47 PM

Did the math again and 12g is for sure the correct size wire.

in order to make 14 gauge acceptable, you would have to have a continuously supplied battery voltage of 13v and and amperage draw no more than 18.5 from your lights and no more than 1.8m (6ft) of wire from lights to relay. So thats all REALLY pushing it close. So 12 g will work more safely. 12g will be safe up to 10feet of wire for a battery voltage as low as 12 volts and a current as high as 20amps. More than 10 feet of cable or any more lights on that circuit will call for 10g or heavier wire.

ProForce 06-23-2013 05:52 PM

After all this and the other LED flasher thread, your gonna owe me more than a beer :sammich:

:cheers:

Ill take a bottle of Jack Daniels :D

Bengland25 06-30-2013 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProForce (Post 7068681)
After all this and the other LED flasher thread, your gonna owe me more than a beer :sammich:

:cheers:

Ill take a bottle of Jack Daniels :D

Haha I can do that as long as you can share a glass with me! Haha


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