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Long travel setup questions for slow crawling

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Old 09-09-2013, 09:07 PM   #1
troyboy162 [OP] troyboy162 is offline
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Long travel setup questions for slow crawling

Ive done a lot of learning the last week and am really excited to purchase a kit from MCMfab but I have a few dumb quy questions I cant figure out from research.


Spring rates- I have a 96 4runner v6(3rd gen). I wont have easy access to to automotive scales to do sprung and un-sprung weight. I see the normal thing is 600 lbs springs up front for a V6, but the trucks crawling with that don't flex all that great. Granted I am heavier then a similar Tacoma, but is a 500 lbs spring out of the question? Would it need excess preload to achieve ride height that it would cause it to droop out the suspension on all hill climbs?

Valving- FOA recommends "medium" rebound for crawling and that makes perfect sense, but will that be a scary handling truck on the road or on the Mojave trail? If so wheres a happy medium? The rocks are my favorite, but the truck takes long distance trail trips just as often.

thanks in advance for any and all info!

oh and are fiberglass fenders delicate? They are kinda pricey but if they can take some rock rash I might look into them to avoid trouble with the cops.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:19 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troyboy162 View Post
Ive done a lot of learning the last week and am really excited to purchase a kit from MCMfab but I have a few dumb quy questions I cant figure out from research.


Spring rates- I have a 96 4runner v6(3rd gen). I wont have easy access to to automotive scales to do sprung and un-sprung weight. I see the normal thing is 600 lbs springs up front for a V6, but the trucks crawling with that don't flex all that great. Granted I am heavier then a similar Tacoma, but is a 500 lbs spring out of the question? Would it need excess preload to achieve ride height that it would cause it to droop out the suspension on all hill climbs?

Valving- FOA recommends "medium" rebound for crawling and that makes perfect sense, but will that be a scary handling truck on the road or on the Mojave trail? If so wheres a happy medium? The rocks are my favorite, but the truck takes long distance trail trips just as often.

thanks in advance for any and all info!

oh and are fiberglass fenders delicate? They are kinda pricey but if they can take some rock rash I might look into them to avoid trouble with the cops.
1st off great choice with MCM. You don't want to go with a lighter spring, you will have so much preload on it to get ride height that it will be useless. With valving my experience is that it matters so little with crawling. So valve it for fast stuff and you'll never notice the difference when crawling. Fiberglass can not hold up to bouncing off a rock, it will snap in half real fast if you wedge it on a rock. Hope that helps!
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Old 09-11-2013, 04:13 AM   #3
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thanks for the info. This is a whole new ball game for me. The enlightenment that I will have a speed capable front end has started the research on the rear end set up. Fun times ahead!

I hope the kit does really well for MCM. Its at a price point that makes it reasonable for a guy like me to look into.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:36 AM   #4
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Ditto with supermoto, valve it for speed, the shock valving won't affect your crawling. And also, ditto, spring it appropriately for the front end, the coils will still compress...

The weight is starting to shift to the passenger side so it's not fully stuffed plus I have hydro bumps that I run pretty high pressure in so those also keep it from compressing easily as well. But... Trust me, it'll compress when I end up in a canyon or area I probably shouldn't be with my 2wd.





BTW, that's an MCM kit also, not the same one you're getting but MCM and I'm happy with it.



Same thing with my exploder... It's sprung and valved for speed yet crawls and stuffs wheels just fine. I use it for my crawler, it's locked up front and rear.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:56 AM   #5
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Agreed with all comments, I went from an Expo mid travel build to Long travel up front and making the transition to rear, one thing I have notice since tunning for more fast terrain is the crawling/wheeling terrain I have yet to see an issue.
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:17 AM   #6
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Obviously not apples to apples but for comparison here's my explorer that's sprung and valved for fast yet I don't think it's ever left the ground or been above 45 in anything actually rough. I use it primarily as my daily driver and to play with my jeep friends. Point being, set it up to go fast and then use it in the rocks all you want... My mall ride's even got 3 tube bypasses in the rear. I was playing with adjusting them this weekend. It's never going to be a true go fast ride cause it lacks a decent amount of uptravel in the rear that it could really use!









I'll stop with the photos now... LOL
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:22 AM   #7
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:29 AM   #8
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Sirkh don't ever stop with photos!
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:31 AM   #9
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LOL, ehhh, I post a ton but I feel like photos work a hell of a lot better then words! Sorry sometimes it's a non yota mall crawler. LOL "if" my yota ever sells it's getting replaced with a chevy powered ford so that'll get real confusing! The TPF Tacoma though is living with me till 2016 most likely so even if I get ride of my yota, there'll still be one around my collection for a few more years at least.
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:55 AM   #10
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Keep in mind that George's truck is running hydro bumps in the front which plays a role in how the truck articulates
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:18 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by M C M View Post
Keep in mind that George's truck is running hydro bumps in the front which plays a role in how the truck articulates
For the benefit of a new LT owner how does a hydo bump affect slow suspension.
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:34 PM   #12
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My personal experience, depends how they're mounted... If they're mounted to strike off the lower arm similar to the OE ones, they aren't really noticeable because the leverage of the arm on them helps to make them easier to compress. They're nice... Mounted way out and up high to strike off the upper arm though like mine are, they inhibit compression. But... You also don't have to run them at 200psi. You can put less psi and dial them in to be softer. They're tunable basically...
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhk100 View Post
My personal experience, depends how they're mounted... If they're mounted to strike off the lower arm similar to the OE ones, they aren't really noticeable because the leverage of the arm on them helps to make them easier to compress. They're nice... Mounted way out and up high to strike off the upper arm though like mine are, they inhibit compression. But... You also don't have to run them at 200psi. You can put less psi and dial them in to be softer. They're tunable basically...

Indeed, I was thinking this to be the case, recently went bypasses up front too, hoping I can tune the front for more speed and not have hydros up front, have plans for hydros in rear.

Thank you
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Old 09-11-2013, 03:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCaltaco65 View Post
For the benefit of a new LT owner how does a hydo bump affect slow suspension.
Bump stop will compress easier when the suspension has more kinetic energy. Slow moving parts have less kinetic energy.

Push down on a charged bump and it barely moves. Pick bump up and slam it down, it moves more with the same weight acting on it.

Most charged bumps can support the weight of the vehicle without completely compressing.

Obviously the pressure will play a role in how much it affects it
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Old 09-11-2013, 03:30 PM   #15
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Someone say LT crawler



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Old 09-11-2013, 03:51 PM   #17
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it'll never work.









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Old 09-11-2013, 03:58 PM   #18
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I do plenty of crawling in my LT 08 DC.. I also have #700 springs and have no problem flexing it.. my articulation is great with those springs
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:44 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M C M View Post
Bump stop will compress easier when the suspension has more kinetic energy. Slow moving parts have less kinetic energy.

Push down on a charged bump and it barely moves. Pick bump up and slam it down, it moves more with the same weight acting on it.

Most charged bumps can support the weight of the vehicle without completely compressing.

Obviously the pressure will play a role in how much it affects it
Thank you Matthew





Ya but an SUA dragging over rocks is still what I fear the most...
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:20 AM   #20
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Ya but an SUA dragging over rocks is still what I fear the most...
Curie U-bolt Bash plates. Slide right over anything:

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