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Old 01-13-2012, 08:48 AM   #21
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How about we get all up in arms about our country being pissed on by the constant invasion, looting and bastardizing of our educational system, voting system, health care system, welfare system, jobs & taxation levels to compensate for all of those by people who have no right to be in this country illegally and have a claim to any of it. How about we hear some outcry from other countries about that shit? It's OK when it is happening to us and noone gives 2 shits and just laughs and it's all funny but heaven forbid we actually have a bad apple or 3 do some isolated incident abroad then the whole world wants to come crawl up our ass all of a sudden. Rifuckindickulous bullshit. PROVE the video is real for starters.
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:05 AM   #22
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^^^ I wouldn't be surprise if the video is real.

Marines are humans. They are trained to be elite professional warriors but for those who have been there will know that out of 100 apples there is bound to be 10 special ones and I'm sure you all have heard that saying about "don't be the 10%". Marines come from all race and age. Their maturity level varies on a numerous amount regardless of age.

As far as these devil nuts go..I say NJP them and bust them down for their stupidity of having it recorded.

My .02
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:11 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T@co_Pr3runn3r View Post
How about we get all up in arms about our country being pissed on by the constant invasion, looting and bastardizing of our educational system, voting system, health care system, welfare system, jobs & taxation levels to compensate for all of those by people who have no right to be in this country illegally and have a claim to any of it. How about we hear some outcry from other countries about that shit? It's OK when it is happening to us and noone gives 2 shits and just laughs and it's all funny but heaven forbid we actually have a bad apple or 3 do some isolated incident abroad then the whole world wants to come crawl up our ass all of a sudden. Rifuckindickulous bullshit. PROVE the video is real for starters.
Oh yeah...Isolated incident-Cause stuff like Abu Garaib never happened.

Jokes and stress relief are a way of life when you are in the military- but there are lines you just don't cross and this group was dumb enuf to tape a trip far across one of them.
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:16 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTacoma02 View Post
^^^ I wouldn't be surprise if the video is real.

Marines are humans. They are trained to be elite professional warriors but for those who have been there will know that out of 100 apples there is bound to be 10 special ones and I'm sure you all have heard that saying about "don't be the 10%". Marines come from all race and age. Their maturity level varies on a numerous amount regardless of age.

As far as these devil nuts go..I say NJP them and bust them down for their stupidity of having it recorded.

My .02
Good post.
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:19 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by T@co_Pr3runn3r View Post
I'm doing neither. Fact and legitemacy should determine their fate and shame is what I am getting at. Do you automatically believe the Russian claim of their Mars mission failures is because the USA is somehow sabotaging them as they pass over this hemisphere too? People can say and manufacture any fucking thing nowadays. If those guys really did that then they should get the wrath they deserve. Are we clear about this now?
Certainly people can manufacture anything these days. You have missed my point though. This has aired on CNN. By now it is viral on the internet. The affects of this video will only spread, whether it be legit or not. If one person can manufacture a video, another 10 million can more easily manufacture their opinionated response. There is no shortage of scared human beings looking for amunition for their cache of judgement be it legit or manufactured
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:24 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cakmakli View Post
For every act like that one there are thousands like this:

http://youtu.be/P8XM2P825xg

Why don't these videos get emailed, posted, blogged, and talked about like the bad ones? One of the pissing videos on Youtube has only been up 2 days and already has 119,000 hits. This one has been up over 4 years and only has 59,000 hits
What you say is very profound. Perhaps we are all so angry that we gravitate to experiences that justify it!
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:30 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T@co_Pr3runn3r View Post
How about we get all up in arms about our country being pissed on by the constant invasion, looting and bastardizing of our educational system, voting system, health care system, welfare system, jobs & taxation levels to compensate for all of those by people who have no right to be in this country illegally and have a claim to any of it. How about we hear some outcry from other countries about that shit? It's OK when it is happening to us and noone gives 2 shits and just laughs and it's all funny but heaven forbid we actually have a bad apple or 3 do some isolated incident abroad then the whole world wants to come crawl up our ass all of a sudden. Rifuckindickulous bullshit. PROVE the video is real for starters.
First, you don't HAVE to prove the video is real. It exists in the mind of Public Opinion, and that's all that matters.

Second, the BIGGER problem is that this shit keeps popping up. Our military is facing a real problem with these Independent Incidents and, as limited as they are, when combined together they paint a terrible portrayal of our men and women in uniform.

I've tried to justify this in my mind and to people I talk to about it. On the list of atrocities, this is way down the list of "Bad Shit You Can Do." It certainly doesn't compare to the things that have been done to American servicemen & women.

But the takeaway for me is this -- it doesn't matter if you are Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, Coast Guard, Guard, CIA or anything else tasked with performing military duties for the United States. You have two main jobs:

1.) Protect the guy next to you.

2.) Be better than the guys you are fighting.

I don't mean Be Better as having better skills or more advanced equipment or more complex tactics. I mean be better. Be the people who rise above as opposed to being dragged down. Don't lower yourself to the level of those you are fighting against, for if you do, you are no better than them.

You can win all the battles you want, but if you're not better, it's a pretty hollow victory.
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:32 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cakmakli View Post
For every act like that one there are thousands like this:

http://youtu.be/P8XM2P825xg

Why don't these videos get emailed, posted, blogged, and talked about like the bad ones? One of the pissing videos on Youtube has only been up 2 days and already has 119,000 hits. This one has been up over 4 years and only has 59,000 hits
I really do wish people would see more pieces like this. It really is a shame.

But it's the same phenomena as why house fires lead the news and the puppy who helps kids learn to read is in the C-block.
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:32 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Lost_Humanity View Post
First, you don't HAVE to prove the video is real. It exists in the mind of Public Opinion, and that's all that matters.

Second, the BIGGER problem is that this shit keeps popping up. Our military is facing a real problem with these Independent Incidents and, as limited as they are, when combined together they paint a terrible portrayal of our men and women in uniform.

I've tried to justify this in my mind and to people I talk to about it. On the list of atrocities, this is way down the list of "Bad Shit You Can Do." It certainly doesn't compare to the things that have been done to American servicemen & women.

But the takeaway for me is this -- it doesn't matter if you are Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, Coast Guard, Guard, CIA or anything else tasked with performing military duties for the United States. You have two main jobs:

1.) Protect the guy next to you.

2.) Be better than the guys you are fighting.

I don't mean Be Better as having better skills or more advanced equipment or more complex tactics. I mean be better. Be the people who rise above as opposed to being dragged down. Don't lower yourself to the level of those you are fighting against, for if you do, you are no better than them.

You can win all the battles you want, but if you're not better, it's a pretty hollow victory.
amen brother
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:42 AM   #30
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What people tend to forget is that the military is a huge organization staffed with normal people, with normal feelings, and normal emotions. Out of every bunch you are always going to have a few that just don't get it.

The military is as proactive about this stuff as you can get. There are class, after class, after class, after class. It is pounded into every leader's skull. Service members who commit atrocities are dealt with. Sure it looks bad but what more can the military do? You can not police every Tom, Dick, and Harry 24/7. Shit happens and when it does you deal with it and them.

If you could control everyone's actions at all time then we wouldn't need prisons.
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:00 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cakmakli View Post
What people tend to forget is that the military is a huge organization staffed with normal people, with normal feelings, and normal emotions. Out of every bunch you are always going to have a few that just don't get it.

The military is as proactive about this stuff as you can get. There are class, after class, after class, after class. It is hounded into every leader's skull. Service members who commit atrocities are dealt with. Sure it looks bad but what more can the military do? You can not police every Tom, Dick, and Harry 24/7. Shit happens and when it does you deal with it and them.

If you could control everyone's actions at all time then we wouldn't need prisons.
Trust me, I know. And unfortunately, as selective as we've become, there is still a certain element whose mental capacity needs improvement.

It's like having the world's biggest corporation, with the most complex anti-harassment training possible. But it's so big and it's focus is on doing its job, not making sure that Gabe isn't staring at Suzy's ass.

I really just feel bad for the rest of the men and women who DO strive to be better, then is all torn down around them because a few guys need to let off steam.

Like I said, on the list of Bad Shit You Can Do, this is pretty minimal. It just pains me when men who supposedly take pride in their profession and are proud of those they fight with actively participate in activities which tarnishes the reputations and respectability of those whom they are most proud.

It also give the ones who would do more heinous activities what I call "locker room material." If the enemy sees images of American men doing things of this nature, what is to restrain them from committing similar or worse acts? I realize they already do those things now, but what if the difference between your brother in arms being held or being decapitated is whether his captors have seen this video? Shouldn't that be enough deterrent to NOT make it? That you could potentially save someone's life?

Or does the performance benefits from blowing off steam (and, let's face it, camaraderie) outweigh the risk association with potential capture? I'm not sure where the answer lies.

Sorry this went so long. I'm not trying to be on a soapbox, just getting my thoughts out.
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:24 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Brunes View Post
Oh yeah...Isolated incident-Cause stuff like Abu Garaib never happened.

Jokes and stress relief are a way of life when you are in the military- but there are lines you just don't cross and this group was dumb enuf to tape a trip far across one of them.
I agree that this type behavior is out of line especially if we expect others to not perpetrate the same or worse. Let's not fantasize about this being a one way street tho. I'm fairly certain things of this nature have happened to our forces just as much or more than our forces have done it. This is a war. Let's not pretend any other military is any more or less innocent of such. The people involved do deserve what they get when their actions have been proven. I have never said, posted or thought otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Hairy Taco View Post
Certainly people can manufacture anything these days. You have missed my point though. This has aired on CNN. By now it is viral on the internet. The affects of this video will only spread, whether it be legit or not. If one person can manufacture a video, another 10 million can more easily manufacture their opinionated response. There is no shortage of scared human beings looking for amunition for their cache of judgement be it legit or manufactured
I will still error on the side of patriotism until incidents of this type are proven.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost_Humanity View Post
First, you don't HAVE to prove the video is real. It exists in the mind of Public Opinion, and that's all that matters.

Second, the BIGGER problem is that this shit keeps popping up. Our military is facing a real problem with these Independent Incidents and, as limited as they are, when combined together they paint a terrible portrayal of our men and women in uniform.

I've tried to justify this in my mind and to people I talk to about it. On the list of atrocities, this is way down the list of "Bad Shit You Can Do." It certainly doesn't compare to the things that have been done to American servicemen & women.

But the takeaway for me is this -- it doesn't matter if you are Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, Coast Guard, Guard, CIA or anything else tasked with performing military duties for the United States. You have two main jobs:

1.) Protect the guy next to you.

2.) Be better than the guys you are fighting.

I don't mean Be Better as having better skills or more advanced equipment or more complex tactics. I mean be better. Be the people who rise above as opposed to being dragged down. Don't lower yourself to the level of those you are fighting against, for if you do, you are no better than them.

You can win all the battles you want, but if you're not better, it's a pretty hollow victory.
I agree with all of this but still will error on the side of believing our military perpetrates such nonsense far less than it has happened to them until there is proof. What I want to know is where is the world's outcry about this type behavior when it has happened to us? I've seen none near the same level in my 51 yrs here. That and the possible shame this brings on our country are both unacceptable to me.
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:55 AM   #33
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Here, this is my point. Where is the outrage from the Afghan dude and the rest of the world about what his people are doing? He was quick enough to pipe up about what our guys supposedly did. Absurd how everything else anyone else other than the USA does is dismissed & ignored. Why doesn't the taliban consider this "barbaric" like the peeing thing? From another thread on TW about this incident..............Why isn't this worldwide every newscast viral video?

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Originally Posted by GP3 View Post
Why isn't this in the news?

************GRAPHIC CONTENT**************

Disgusting Mistreatment Of Human Taliban Carcasses By Liberated Afghan Forces- Warning: Graphic

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4cd_1326415154

Their own country men are doing it, but it makes US soldiers peeing on bodies much less dramatic.
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:03 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by T@co_Pr3runn3r View Post
I agree that this type behavior is out of line especially if we expect others to not perpetrate the same or worse. Let's not fantasize about this being a one way street tho. I'm fairly certain things of this nature have happened to our forces just as much or more than our forces have done it. This is a war. Let's not pretend any other military is any more or less innocent of such. The people involved do deserve what they get when their actions have been proven. I have never said, posted or thought otherwise.
Quote:
I will still error on the side of patriotism until incidents of this type are proven.
I agree with all of this but still will error on the side of believing our military perpetrates such nonsense far less than it has happened to them until there is proof. What I want to know is where is the world's outcry about this type behavior when it has happened to us? I've seen none near the same level in my 51 yrs here. That and the possible shame this brings on our country are both unacceptable to me.
Good on you for your patriotism and for believing until the facts are out. More people need to be like this.

I argue with my brother constantly about the role of warfare in the modern world. He is a true Sun-Tzu enthusiast -- where your policy makers make policy and your warriors make war, and neither should the two mix.

I contend that in the modern world, we are no longer waging wars for traditional methodologies (land/people acquisition, natural resources, survival, etc.) but as an extension of political ideologies. With the expansion of media and the subjective nature of politics, it is ever more important to conduct warfare with the political properties with which we seek to promote/defend.

With the development of the Industrial Revolution and the subsequent Technological Revolution, we no longer need to wage war to provide for the betterment of our people. We do not need to expand our territory or population to ensure the growth of our culture or to stave off eradication. Because of these reasons, and the relinquish of power from autocrats to the people we now face increased backlash from our own citizenry as to the rationale for waging war. As the time gap between the battlefield and public knowledge shrinks, it is ever increasingly important to uphold the morals and objectives we seeks to promote through combat in our visible actions.

This places exponential stresses on our combat forces. For no longer are they allowed to wage war with the sole objective of victory for their protectives by whatever means necessary, for the objective is more psychological then physical. If the objective is to convert aggressor to ally -- or even merely neutral -- we must convince them that our methodology is sound, moral, and beneficial to their populations as well.
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:09 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Lost_Humanity View Post
Good on you for your patriotism and for believing until the facts are out. More people need to be like this.

I argue with my brother constantly about the role of warfare in the modern world. He is a true Sun-Tzu enthusiast -- where your policy makers make policy and your warriors make war, and neither should the two mix.

I contend that in the modern world, we are no longer waging wars for traditional methodologies (land/people acquisition, natural resources, survival, etc.) but as an extension of political ideologies. With the expansion of media and the subjective nature of politics, it is ever more important to conduct warfare with the political properties with which we seek to promote/defend.

With the development of the Industrial Revolution and the subsequent Technological Revolution, we no longer need to wage war to provide for the betterment of our people. We do not need to expand our territory or population to ensure the growth of our culture or to stave off eradication. Because of these reasons, and the relinquish of power from autocrats to the people we now face increased backlash from our own citizenry as to the rationale for waging war. As the time gap between the battlefield and public knowledge shrinks, it is ever increasingly important to uphold the morals and objectives we seeks to promote through combat in our visible actions.

This places exponential stresses on our combat forces. For no longer are they allowed to wage war with the sole objective of victory for their protectives by whatever means necessary, for the objective is more psychological then physical. If the objective is to convert aggressor to ally -- or even merely neutral -- we must convince them that our methodology is sound, moral, and beneficial to their populations as well.
I understand what you are saying about it almost being a pay per view event with all the possible media points and shit being instantaneous and the need to keep your shit straight and do nothing that can be used against you. The part I can't stand is how it is used against our country every possible moment but is dismissed ignored or not even published posted or otherwise acknowledged when it's the shoe on the other foot.
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:27 PM   #37
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And I wouldn't classify it as barbaric, what those fuckers did to the blackwater contractors is the definition of barbaric.

If you are unfamiliar, google "blackwater bridge". Absolutely disgusting.
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:28 PM   #38
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I love those Action Figure Therapy Videos. Funny stuff
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:39 PM   #39
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So I posted this in the "Filthy and vile" thread. I thought it was well said.

From former 82nd Airborne Colonel Allen West.

“I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.

“All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?

“The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.

“As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.” -Rep. Allen West
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Old 01-14-2012, 11:35 AM   #40
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^^^Well Said^^^
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