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Old 08-08-2012, 09:21 AM   #41
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I'm a Conservative, and I've been saying it for years. We need to get out of alot of these countries and use that manpower and equipment to secure our borders. Imagine if we spent 1/8 of our military budget on education... it would make a huge difference.
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Old 08-08-2012, 09:35 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenTusk View Post
K so here's what I don't understand: If you guys have this huge, worldly sized military in the United States, and this huge massive drug problem domestically, why don't you guys just bring everyone home for a year or two, work with the DEA, and start dismantling the drug trade in your country. To me it just seems like an issue of being horribly undermanned.

Or even help out Mexico?? It seems like dealing with the countries like that where the gangs are better equiped then the cops would be a better useage of resources.
Well, that's the true question isn't it? I live in South Texas and go the border towns often for work, and I can tell you that it is an escalating problem. Unfortunately, resolution would mean tighter controls on the border access and crossing and also on legal/illegal entrants to the country. This is a huge area of contention in the US and there are large opinionated groups on both sides of the pro/con fence.

I wish I had an answer, but I don't. I'd love for our military/gov't to come in and fix it, but the "fix" is multi-faceted and contested by a lot of our citizens, so its really tough. Until then, I've subscribed to the "who has an AR-15" thread and taking care of my homestead
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Old 08-08-2012, 09:43 AM   #43
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Cool Rule of Law

To answer your question:
1) open and internet browser,
2) Go to www.google.com
3) type the following in the search bar "Posse Comitatus Act"
4) hit "enter" or click "search"
5) read and learn
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Old 08-08-2012, 09:46 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12DblCab View Post
I'm a Conservative, and I've been saying it for years. We need to get out of alot of these countries and use that manpower and equipment to secure our borders. Imagine if we spent 1/8 of our military budget on education... it would make a huge difference.
More money does not yield better education. A true conservative would amend your statement to say "Imagine if we returned 1/8 of our military budget to the tax payer... it would make a huge difference." :-)
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:37 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenTusk View Post
If you guys have this huge, worldly sized military in the United States, and this huge massive drug problem domestically, why don't you guys just bring everyone home for a year or two, work with the DEA, and start dismantling the drug trade in your country.
Because here in America, it's unconstitutional to use the Armed Forces against fellow citizens. Like it or not, most of the drug dealers (and producers and users) are citizens and have the same rights that the rest of us have. That's the difference between being a citizen and a subject.
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:38 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevotaco View Post
More money does not yield better education.
Is that the reason that Harvard costs more than your average community college?
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Old 08-08-2012, 03:25 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevotaco View Post
More money does not yield better education. A true conservative would amend your statement to say "Imagine if we returned 1/8 of our military budget to the tax payer... it would make a huge difference." :-)
Maybe in Stafford, VA where the schools are nice. In my city, alot of schools don't have the funding they need, and many students can't afford school supplies or lunch.
Sure, I would like lower taxes and less government, but alot of parents here are epic failures, so the government has to step up and raise their kids at school. We have kids in 6th grade and up that can't even read. So yeah, more money would mean better education in alot of ways.
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Old 08-08-2012, 03:41 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12DblCab View Post
Maybe in Stafford, VA where the schools are nice. In my city, alot of schools don't have the funding they need, and many students can't afford school supplies or lunch.
Sure, I would like lower taxes and less government, but alot of parents here are epic failures, so the government has to step up and raise their kids at school. We have kids in 6th grade and up that can't even read. So yeah, more money would mean better education in alot of ways.
Even though im not poltical, i agree with you on this. I have heard horror stories and experienced for myself what happens when money is not pumped into the education system. Bad things happen like the sad situation stated. More money in education would make a difference, any that say it wouldn't is fooling themselves.
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Old 08-08-2012, 05:44 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenTusk View Post
K so here's what I don't understand: If you guys have this huge, worldly sized military in the United States, and this huge massive drug problem domestically, why don't you guys just bring everyone home for a year or two, work with the DEA, and start dismantling the drug trade in your country. To me it just seems like an issue of being horribly undermanned.

Or even help out Mexico?? It seems like dealing with the countries like that where the gangs are better equiped then the cops would be a better useage of resources.
you speak as if Canada has no drug problem or it's own drug trade
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:25 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12DblCab View Post
Maybe in Stafford, VA where the schools are nice. In my city, alot of schools don't have the funding they need, and many students can't afford school supplies or lunch.
Sure, I would like lower taxes and less government, but alot of parents here are epic failures, so the government has to step up and raise their kids at school. We have kids in 6th grade and up that can't even read. So yeah, more money would mean better education in alot of ways.
That's a good point, the schools are very nice in my neck of the woods. The situation you described is a bummer, but here's my question, aside from current education grants is more federal funding to local schools fair? Why should Virginians fund the epic failures (parents) in other states? I have no problem paying more in Virginia taxes which will flow to my fellow Virginians but why should I have to support kids in other states where I have no say in that state's policies?
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:35 AM   #52
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Cool no...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
Is that the reason that Harvard costs more than your average community college?
No, it's called branding. For example, I'm assuming you didn't go to Harvard (excuse me if I'm mistaken) but you still hold it up as one of the best schools in the nation. Alternatively, can you name any average community colleges in Cambridge, Mass? Employers are subject to the same brand recognition.

Pretend you are an employer: If you are going to accept resumes from a pool of applicants would you rather have a group of Harvard resumes or back country community college resumes? Obviously you would want to select from the Harvard batch... right? Employers have a higher demand for Harvard graduates, therefore Harvard grads can charge more on the job market, and as a result Harvard can charge its students more.

Kids that go to Harvard are paying for the brand, not the education.
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:46 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChamYota View Post
Even though im not poltical, i agree with you on this. I have heard horror stories and experienced for myself what happens when money is not pumped into the education system. Bad things happen like the sad situation stated. More money in education would make a difference, any that say it wouldn't is fooling themselves.
Ok, valid point I may be fooling myself, where should the money go?

How much should we pay the "epic failures" to be better parents? Should we start paying the kids to give more effort? Obviously the teachers don't need more money, they choose to work at the wage they are paid. In other words, if they wanted more money they could get a job in a higher paying school district.

So who is the beneficiary of this "more money"? How much more should we give? What happens if we dedicate a trillion dollars to education and we get the same results? ... people will still claim they need "more money." Do you disagree?
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:04 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenTusk View Post
K so here's what I don't understand: If you guys have this huge, worldly sized military in the United States, and this huge massive drug problem domestically, why don't you guys just bring everyone home for a year or two, work with the DEA, and start dismantling the drug trade in your country. To me it just seems like an issue of being horribly undermanned.

Or even help out Mexico?? It seems like dealing with the countries like that where the gangs are better equiped then the cops would be a better useage of resources.
Because we have a legal precedent known as Posse Comitatus that requires VERY SPECIFIC CONDITIONS to be met before the US Military can be employed in an active role inside our borders.

But, yeah, more than a few of us "down yonder" have had the same thought.

ETA: Also, we can't even get the Congress and the President to pass a BUDGET, much less authorize the use of the Army to secure the southern border. The Marines and the Navy are not covered under PC, but are regulated against acting as a posse comitatus by Dept of the Navy regulations.
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:15 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevotaco View Post
Ok, valid point I may be fooling myself, where should the money go?

How much should we pay the "epic failures" to be better parents? Should we start paying the kids to give more effort? Obviously the teachers don't need more money, they choose to work at the wage they are paid. In other words, if they wanted more money they could get a job in a higher paying school district.

So who is the beneficiary of this "more money"? How much more should we give? What happens if we dedicate a trillion dollars to education and we get the same results? ... people will still claim they need "more money." Do you disagree?
Sometimes its not necessarily the parents, for example my parents stressed education but couldn't help me on my studies 80% of the time. I didn't use that as an excuse to not do well as I've seen what people with no high school education or just that end up, no where fast. What im saying is that Teachers don't do their job for the Money, im surprised they don't get paid more honestly, because teachers/professors teach the future lawyers,engineers,doctors,ect(to name a few big ones). Im saying that if they added more qualified teachers, more study programs, harder schoolwork because goodness high school was nothing, then the quality of high thinking students would INCREASE, not a monumental jump but increase, and over time this would lead to more students pursuing higher education and more success to give back to their respective places. To be honest i couldnt tell you how much is needed as i dont make budgets for the education system, but more is needed that much i know. So many people struggle but the help simply isnt there physically so they are left unattended to just fail essentially. If your trillion dollar scenario actually happens then i guess you were right but we'll never know because by the time we figure out what people have been saying (conservatives anyway) that more money needs to be in education, we'll be dead last in math and science. We need to start from the bottom, education. That is all Im saying. If you find fault is this rebuttle please reply
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:31 AM   #56
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Wow, well I think its been stated here but Posse Comitatus Act prevents the military from conducting counter drug operations on American soil. That said, many national guard units do conduct counter drug operations and are not constrained by the Posse Comitatus Act.

Bringing the Troops home:
Well that would overwhelm the already flooded job market and lead to greater unemployment, not to mention thousands of Military personnel who would quickly be kicked to the road since we are now downsizing the military (ask how I know).

I suppose its seems quite simple to someone who is not an American and whose country lives under the blanket of American freedom provided by the American Military. Canada will never need a large military as long as there is an American military. That said, Canada can afford to spend huge portions of its national budget on social programs where America can not.

So it was suggested that we pull back Troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and give the money that we spend on the wars back to the American people. I am so sick of hearing that line. Here's the deal ALL defense spending (ALL) accounts for just shy of 20% of our national budget. Since the Constitution requires our government to provide for the common defense, 20% does not seem like a huge chunk to me. Consider for a moment that Social Security accounts for 20% and Medicare/Medicaid accounts for 21% and these two expenditures are not constitutionally required (they are enforced by amendments). that is 41% of our national budget that is handouts. I am not saying cut it all but the total war costs to the America is not the big fish its made out to be.

source
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258

And then my last point. If we pull back from these two wars we will not be fighting the enemy overseas, we will be fighting them here on our own soil. What will America look like with daily VBIEDs on major highways?

Just my rant.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:04 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
Wow, well I think its been stated here but Posse Comitatus Act prevents the military from conducting counter drug operations on American soil. That said, many national guard units do conduct counter drug operations and are not constrained by the Posse Comitatus Act.

Bringing the Troops home:
Well that would overwhelm the already flooded job market and lead to greater unemployment, not to mention thousands of Military personnel who would quickly be kicked to the road since we are now downsizing the military (ask how I know).

I suppose its seems quite simple to someone who is not an American and whose country lives under the blanket of American freedom provided by the American Military. Canada will never need a large military as long as there is an American military. That said, Canada can afford to spend huge portions of its national budget on social programs where America can not.

So it was suggested that we pull back Troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and give the money that we spend on the wars back to the American people. I am so sick of hearing that line. Here's the deal ALL defense spending (ALL) accounts for just shy of 20% of our national budget. Since the Constitution requires our government to provide for the common defense, 20% does not seem like a huge chunk to me. Consider for a moment that Social Security accounts for 20% and Medicare/Medicaid accounts for 21% and these two expenditures are not constitutionally required (they are enforced by amendments). that is 41% of our national budget that is handouts. I am not saying cut it all but the total war costs to the America is not the big fish its made out to be.

source
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258

And then my last point. If we pull back from these two wars we will not be fighting the enemy overseas, we will be fighting them here on our own soil. What will America look like with daily VBIEDs on major highways?

Just my rant.
Holy thread revival
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:41 AM   #58
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At least he used a well written arguement and provided a source for his view points.

I'll allow it.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:46 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
Wow, well I think its been stated here but Posse Comitatus Act prevents the military from conducting counter drug operations on American soil. That said, many national guard units do conduct counter drug operations and are not constrained by the Posse Comitatus Act.

Bringing the Troops home:
Well that would overwhelm the already flooded job market and lead to greater unemployment, not to mention thousands of Military personnel who would quickly be kicked to the road since we are now downsizing the military (ask how I know).

I suppose its seems quite simple to someone who is not an American and whose country lives under the blanket of American freedom provided by the American Military. Canada will never need a large military as long as there is an American military. That said, Canada can afford to spend huge portions of its national budget on social programs where America can not.

So it was suggested that we pull back Troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and give the money that we spend on the wars back to the American people. I am so sick of hearing that line. Here's the deal ALL defense spending (ALL) accounts for just shy of 20% of our national budget. Since the Constitution requires our government to provide for the common defense, 20% does not seem like a huge chunk to me. Consider for a moment that Social Security accounts for 20% and Medicare/Medicaid accounts for 21% and these two expenditures are not constitutionally required (they are enforced by amendments). that is 41% of our national budget that is handouts. I am not saying cut it all but the total war costs to the America is not the big fish its made out to be.

source
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258

And then my last point. If we pull back from these two wars we will not be fighting the enemy overseas, we will be fighting them here on our own soil. What will America look like with daily VBIEDs on major highways?

Just my rant.
"lives under the blanket of American freedom" haha.... get a grip, our guys are over there too.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:00 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by DrewH View Post
"lives under the blanket of American freedom" haha.... get a grip, our guys are over there too.
lol, that part made me laugh too.
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