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Military Academy=Military Service?

View Poll Results: Academy = Service
Good Enough 3 4.23%
Not Quite 68 95.77%
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:45 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Monkey View Post
Time at the academy does not equal time in service (it doesn't count toward your retirement in calculating the number of years served). From the office of SecDef:
http://militarypay.defense.gov/retir...9_faqs.html#Q2

It does count as federal service.

It is considered Active Duty:
37 USC 101(18) states, "The term 'active duty' means full-time duty in the active service of a uniformed service, and includes full-time training duty, annual training duty, full-time National Guard duty, and attendance, while in the active service, at a school designated as a service school by law or by the Secretary concerned."

38 USC 101(b)(21) states, "The term 'active duty' means service as a cadet at the United States Military, Air Force, or Coast Guard Academy, or as a midshipman at the United States Naval Academy."

38 USC 1965(1)(d) states, "The term 'active duty' means full-time duty as a cadet or midshipman at the United States Military Academy, United States Naval Academy, United States Air Force Academy, or the United States Coast Guard Academy."


It's probably just not well known since most active duty aren't exposed to cadets or midshipmen on a regular basis.

Well there we go. according to those statutes, time in an academy is considered active duty. Interesting. So I am confused how the link at the beginning says it does NOT count.....

Following the link all it does state is that it does not count towards your retirement time credit.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:12 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaToy1997 View Post
Unless things have changed over the years, your TIS starts the day you signed your contract and were sworn in. I was sworn in and signed my contract with the USMC on 10 November, 1986 for 8 years. I graduated high school in 1987 and went to basic training summer of 1987, and my contract ended on 10 November, 1994. Full TIS was 8 years.
Youre actually right, for enlisted folks going through the DEP program.

I did the same thing when I enlisted in 2000. Signed my contract and swore in July 2000, but didnt start boot camp until Feb 2001. So my TIS started in July 2000.

Commissioning is a different story though. Your TIS date wont start until you
1. Start OTC/OCS
2. Graduate college/ROTC AND leave for AD. That is your date of active duty entry. Some guys graduate college and are "commissioned" ceremonially on that date but might not leave for active duty for months, dependent on the needs of their branch of service. I know a guy that pinned on his butter bar the day he graduated college but sat around as a civilian for 9 months before he officially shipped offed to his first base as a 2Lt.
3. The academy (at least the Air Force) does things a little different. I'm not an academy grad, but its my understanding they enter active duty when they graduate. The AF gives their grads a little free, non chargeable leave after they graduate (30 days?) to go do something stupid, get a DUI, etc, before they PCS to their follow on assignment.

Evil Monkey, you're right, time at the academy is federal service, as I mentioned on page 2. It'll come in handy for post-military service in the federal civilian sector but doesnt add time to your military TIS.

The shitbag in question wouldnt have gotten a DD214 for his time at the academy. However, he probably would have gotten a SF-50, which is the federal employee equivalent of the 214 indicating how long you were a federal employee. I believe it will have a code for the reason of "discharge", termination, etc. I'd have to look at mine for my stint at the National Archives.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:56 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanLikesTacos View Post
Youre actually right, for enlisted folks going through the DEP program.

I did the same thing when I enlisted in 2000. Signed my contract and swore in July 2000, but didnt start boot camp until Feb 2001. So my TIS started in July 2000.

Commissioning is a different story though. Your TIS date wont start until you
1. Start OTC/OCS
2. Graduate college/ROTC AND leave for AD. That is your date of active duty entry. Some guys graduate college and are "commissioned" ceremonially on that date but might not leave for active duty for months, dependent on the needs of their branch of service. I know a guy that pinned on his butter bar the day he graduated college but sat around as a civilian for 9 months before he officially shipped offed to his first base as a 2Lt.
3. The academy (at least the Air Force) does things a little different. I'm not an academy grad, but its my understanding they enter active duty when they graduate. The AF gives their grads a little free, non chargeable leave after they graduate (30 days?) to go do something stupid, get a DUI, etc, before they PCS to their follow on assignment.

Evil Monkey, you're right, time at the academy is federal service, as I mentioned on page 2. It'll come in handy for post-military service in the federal civilian sector but doesnt add time to your military TIS.

The shitbag in question wouldnt have gotten a DD214 for his time at the academy. However, he probably would have gotten a SF-50, which is the federal employee equivalent of the 214 indicating how long you were a federal employee. I believe it will have a code for the reason of "discharge", termination, etc. I'd have to look at mine for my stint at the National Archives.
Things have changed then, I signed up in the DEP, sometime in my junior year of high school something like March of 2006, and didnt go to basic until Aug 07. My dd214, and all other paperwork, promotions, etc that refered to my TIS has always been Aug 07
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:08 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanLikesTacos View Post
Youre actually right, for enlisted folks going through the DEP program.

I did the same thing when I enlisted in 2000. Signed my contract and swore in July 2000, but didnt start boot camp until Feb 2001. So my TIS started in July 2000.

Commissioning is a different story though. Your TIS date wont start until you
1. Start OTC/OCS
2. Graduate college/ROTC AND leave for AD. That is your date of active duty entry. Some guys graduate college and are "commissioned" ceremonially on that date but might not leave for active duty for months, dependent on the needs of their branch of service. I know a guy that pinned on his butter bar the day he graduated college but sat around as a civilian for 9 months before he officially shipped offed to his first base as a 2Lt.
3. The academy (at least the Air Force) does things a little different. I'm not an academy grad, but its my understanding they enter active duty when they graduate. The AF gives their grads a little free, non chargeable leave after they graduate (30 days?) to go do something stupid, get a DUI, etc, before they PCS to their follow on assignment.

Evil Monkey, you're right, time at the academy is federal service, as I mentioned on page 2. It'll come in handy for post-military service in the federal civilian sector but doesnt add time to your military TIS.

The shitbag in question wouldnt have gotten a DD214 for his time at the academy. However, he probably would have gotten a SF-50, which is the federal employee equivalent of the 214 indicating how long you were a federal employee. I believe it will have a code for the reason of "discharge", termination, etc. I'd have to look at mine for my stint at the National Archives.

thanks for the additional information. I do have a question though, if you are correct in the above statement, the statute that was quoted says differently.

Quote:
It is considered Active Duty:
37 USC 101(18) states, "The term 'active duty' means full-time duty in the active service of a uniformed service, and includes full-time training duty, annual training duty, full-time National Guard duty, and attendance, while in the active service, at a school designated as a service school by law or by the Secretary concerned."

38 USC 101(b)(21) states, "The term 'active duty' means service as a cadet at the United States Military, Air Force, or Coast Guard Academy, or as a midshipman at the United States Naval Academy."

38 USC 1965(1)(d) states, "The term 'active duty' means full-time duty as a cadet or midshipman at the United States Military Academy, United States Naval Academy, United States Air Force Academy, or the United States Coast Guard Academy."


It's probably just not well known since most active duty aren't exposed to cadets or midshipmen on a regular basis.
If the statute is correct, then when at one of the 4 major academies, you are active duty when at school.
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:22 AM   #45
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Well if you grad from an academy are you an 0-1 with 4 yrs of service? If so you would have a bump in pay. I dont think that's the case.
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:26 AM   #46
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:44 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy87 View Post
Well if you grad from an academy are you an 0-1 with 4 yrs of service? If so you would have a bump in pay. I dont think that's the case.
No. It doesn't count for time in service in regards to the military. It does count as Federal service so if you got a federal job, you'd start as someone who had 4 years.
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:48 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaToy1997 View Post
thanks for the additional information. I do have a question though, if you are correct in the above statement, the statute that was quoted says differently.

If the statute is correct, then when at one of the 4 major academies, you are active duty when at school.
It is confusing. The midshipman contract states that they agree to enter active duty for 5 years after graduating. It's some kind of quirk that Congress instituted so that you didn't have a boot ensign coming to the fleet with 4-5 years of time in service (time in service can affect someone's authority over another with equal rank). So a boot ensign wouldn't outrank another boot ensign who went to a regular 4-year college just because the former went to the academy.

Also, someone who just went to the academy and dropped out would not be considered a veteran (no VA benefits) as you have to have been on active duty "other than training".
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:33 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeckel7234 View Post
Things have changed then, I signed up in the DEP, sometime in my junior year of high school something like March of 2006, and didnt go to basic until Aug 07. My dd214, and all other paperwork, promotions, etc that refered to my TIS has always been Aug 07
You are correct. I was delayed entry. I had 6 months delayed entry. My service start date was march of 1980 which is when I entered boot camp. I didn't get any extra time in service because of delayed entry (it just guarantees a spot). DEP is considered inactive reserves. I believe it does take time off your total obligation. For example, if you signed a contract for 4 years active, 2 years inactive, a 6 month DEP would mean you only have 1.5 years after your active duty is finished.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:57 AM   #50
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Obviously things have changed over the years. I guess they no longer credit DEP time towards TIS any longer. I suspected that had happened, as it WAS back in 86 when I signed my contract. It was nice that after completing basic I was already able to get my promotion. I didn't have any bonuses when I enlisted, so at graduation from basic I was an E-1, but got E-2 very soon after.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:12 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaToy1997 View Post
Obviously things have changed over the years. I guess they no longer credit DEP time towards TIS any longer. I suspected that had happened, as it WAS back in 86 when I signed my contract. It was nice that after completing basic I was already able to get my promotion. I didn't have any bonuses when I enlisted, so at graduation from basic I was an E-1, but got E-2 very soon after.
that woulda been awesome since i was in the dep for a year and half. We just had to meet once a month, and do a group workout maybe 3 times a year.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:16 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeckel7234 View Post
that woulda been awesome since i was in the dep for a year and half. We just had to meet once a month, and do a group workout maybe 3 times a year.
I was in DEP from 10 Nov, 1986 until July 1987. Same thing, met at the recruiter's each month, did the PFT test each time to make sure we were ready. I always sucked at the sit-ups but maxed out pull-ups and did good on the run.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:08 AM   #53
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The USMC had an Officer program called the PLC program. You go to a 4yr college, then for 2 summers you spend 6 weeks at OCS in Quantico. When you graduate from college you're an 0-1. Now if you do it as a Freshman you start as an 0-1 with 4 yrs TIS. At the time I had no clue about anything with the military as far as the daily aspect of it. So this made no sense to me. But looking back, I really wish I would have done this.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:28 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaToy1997 View Post
Obviously things have changed over the years. I guess they no longer credit DEP time towards TIS any longer. I suspected that had happened, as it WAS back in 86 when I signed my contract. It was nice that after completing basic I was already able to get my promotion. I didn't have any bonuses when I enlisted, so at graduation from basic I was an E-1, but got E-2 very soon after.
My guess it was because you met once a month (viewed as an active reservist). I was in before you were and didn't get any credit for DEP but I didn't meet during that period.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:39 AM   #55
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I briefly worked for the USDA NFC, which does the payroll for about a 1/3 of the U.S. Govt. As far as federal benefits is concerned so long as you GRADUATED from the Service Academies, your time in will count towards Fed Govt retirement benefits. It is my understanding that when Military retirement comes around, your upper classmen time will also count towards "your 20", but I won't bet my Taco on that one.


PS: The guy on the OP's original post is a just a douche.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:51 AM   #56
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I briefly worked for the USDA NFC, which does the payroll for about a 1/3 of the U.S. Govt. As far as federal benefits is concerned so long as you GRADUATED from the Service Academies, your time in will count towards Fed Govt retirement benefits. It is my understanding that when Military retirement comes around, your upper classmen time will also count towards "your 20", but I won't bet my Taco on that one.


PS: The guy on the OP's original post is a just a douche.
No. Time served for military retirement purposes doesn't begin until you're commissioned.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:19 PM   #57
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Army: 94B/76Y Medical Honorable Discharge
Name: Raph, and I'm from Tampa, FL.
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Originally Posted by Evil Monkey View Post
No. Time served for military retirement purposes doesn't begin until you're commissioned.

I stand corrected. Still, Service Academy time does count towards federal retirement.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:00 PM   #58
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You showing up once a month wouldn't count towards a "good year" for retirement. Your TIS date should start there though. Say you were in DEP for 365 days/one year, then went on active duty. You showed up one weekend a month like a normal reservist. AD dudes get one retirement point per day, so 365 points a year. In a 20 year career, youre going to accumulate 7,300 points. If you were awarded 2 points for your weekend (reservist actually get 4 points for a drill weekend, but anyway), subtract your 24 points from your 7,300 points. So you will be close to your 21st year to get your 20 year retirement. But your TIS date should start when you signed your contract. When in doubt, your pay date is on your LES.

The federal retirement system does work a little different and I think we've established the fact that you are a federal employee while at the academy and would count towards a federal retirement and not your military retirement. A former federal employee's SF-50 will indicate how much credible time they have towards a federal retirement.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:32 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Monkey View Post
My guess it was because you met once a month (viewed as an active reservist). I was in before you were and didn't get any credit for DEP but I didn't meet during that period.
I was not counted as an active reservist because I was still 17 at the time. You WERE allowed to sign a DEP at 17, but could not serve until after your 18th birthday. To support this, if I WAS considered active reserves, I would have gotten paid for those times (You cannot drill without being paid) Our get togethers were never scheduled, nor on specific dates. The group that was in DEP got together to schedule when it would be best for all of us to get together at the same time so we could PT. It was not required, but was "heavily recommended" by the recruiter.

I do recall my DD-214 showed an appropriate amount of time credited towards my retirement, however reserve retirement pay and benefits are different. To get FULL retirement one had to do 30 years in the reserve. (I remember this because at that time we had a HUGE retirement party for our 1st Sgt who was retiring with full benefits after 25 years. He was credited 5 years active, and 20 years reserve. Strange how they do their calculations, but I remember I was curious at the time so I went to admin to have the requirements looked up. Take into account that I did this research in 1992, and things HAVE changed I am sure is 20 years.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:49 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaToy1997 View Post
I was not counted as an active reservist because I was still 17 at the time. You WERE allowed to sign a DEP at 17, but could not serve until after your 18th birthday. To support this, if I WAS considered active reserves, I would have gotten paid for those times (You cannot drill without being paid) Our get togethers were never scheduled, nor on specific dates. The group that was in DEP got together to schedule when it would be best for all of us to get together at the same time so we could PT. It was not required, but was "heavily recommended" by the recruiter.

I do recall my DD-214 showed an appropriate amount of time credited towards my retirement, however reserve retirement pay and benefits are different. To get FULL retirement one had to do 30 years in the reserve. (I remember this because at that time we had a HUGE retirement party for our 1st Sgt who was retiring with full benefits after 25 years. He was credited 5 years active, and 20 years reserve. Strange how they do their calculations, but I remember I was curious at the time so I went to admin to have the requirements looked up. Take into account that I did this research in 1992, and things HAVE changed I am sure is 20 years.
Things have definitely changed. I too enlisted at 17, granted, in the reserves, and showed up on drill weekends and was paid as an E-3 (what I graduated boot camp as) and received retirement points. Obviously at 17, I had to have my parents sign my life away just below my signature and a letter from my HS counselor saying I was on track to graduate.

Retirement is different too. You only have to do 20 years in the reserves to receive a retirement. Granted, its not a full retirement, unless you accumulate those 7,300 points like an active duty guy does. I'm officially a traditional reservist, but being in a flying job, I work 2-4 days a week and go on alot of TDYs, logging retirement points for all that I do. I have 12.5 years of service but 9 years worth of active duty retirement points. So, in order to get my full 20 year retirement, I need to accumulate enough points. It might take 30 years to get 20 years worth of points but I don't have to PCS to a new duty station every few years and have my wife find a new job and kid start a new school. Buying a house and actually living there for more than 3 years without having to sell or rent it to some hoodlums is always a plus too! They call us types "Guard Bums" as we are (air) national guard bubbas who will do anything for a retirment point and a pay check.

I've even volunteered to work on base construction jobs for pay days and we all know Air Force bubbas don't really ever get dirty!
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