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Old 01-23-2013, 08:21 PM   #2
I phucking hate people >:(
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Pretty sure minds will change if and when women become POWs. I pray that never happens but, with todays enemies, there's no such things as Geneva Conventions.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:23 PM   #4
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Thoughts?

If they can hack it, I don't see a problem so long as the logistical issues are worked out.

IF they can hack it.

Our services have standards, and those standards are in place for a reason.
A man has to carry a 60-100lb rucksack. If a woman can do the same, then no problem.
If they lower the standards so women can enter, then the standards need to be lowered for men also, and mechanical equipment needs to be provided for those who can't carry the current complement of gear.

There is a difference between teamwork and supporting each other, and being in a situation where you are expected to literally carry another troop's weight.
It's not the boy scouts.


But they are already discussing that it's going to be at least a 2 year transition because of issues like standards for upper body strength.
That's bullshit. The transition period should be the brass doing what's needed to provide for basic privacy requirements.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ-T View Post
Works for Isreal does it not ?
indeed, it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich91710 View Post

There is a difference between teamwork and supporting each other, and being in a situation where you are expected to literally carry another troop's weight.
It's not the boy scouts.


But they are already discussing that it's going to be at least a 2 year transition because of issues like standards for upper body strength.
That's bullshit. The transition period should be the brass doing what's needed to provide for basic privacy requirements.
I would argue that the strength issue is way more important than any privacy concern. Not just for humping gear either. I'd sure want everyone on my team to have the ability to carry my 6' 220lb body out of harms way if need be. I would do the same for them

I know plenty of women can already carry out such a task...I would hope the standard to do so remains




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Originally Posted by ink junky View Post
Pretty sure minds will change if and when women become POWs. I pray that never happens but, with todays enemies, there's no such things as Geneva Conventions.
I see merit in this thought.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ-T View Post
Works for Isreal does it not ?
Israel is a whole different animal
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg256 View Post
I would argue that the strength issue is way more important than any privacy concern. Not just for humping gear either. I'd sure want everyone on my team to have the ability to carry my 6' 220lb body out of harms way if need be. I would do the same for them
I'm 100% with you.

That's why I'm saying the transition period needs to be to address issues that absolutely will arise with men and women living and fighting together.

The strength issues should be a non-issue... standards should not be reviewed and adjusted for this.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:46 PM   #8
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Whatevs. It was going to happen sooner or later, might as well be now. As far as I'm concerned more volunteers means less forced to fight. The privacy issue is pretty simple in the field. I've had girls handle their business within feet of me. Not cute tinkle business either. At some point they just become part of the team.

Not to mention I know plenty of guys in the military that couldn't drag a 220 pound guy in full kit out of harms way.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich91710 View Post
I'm 100% with you.

That's why I'm saying the transition period needs to be to address issues that absolutely will arise with men and women living and fighting together.

The strength issues should be a non-issue... standards should not be reviewed and adjusted for this.
Agreed...

There is a certain intimacy (for lack of a better word) with those that you are in combat with. Living, sweating, pissing and bleeding right there with your brothers in arms
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg256 View Post
Agreed...

There is a certain intimacy (for lack of a better word) with those that you are in combat with. Living, sweating, pissing and bleeding right there with your brothers in arms
Same with women on the police force. Just on a smaller scale.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Brown View Post

Not to mention I know plenty of guys in the military that couldn't drag a 220 pound guy in full kit out of harms way.
Sure, but what is their capacity and function in the service?
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodiakToyTRD View Post
Same with women on the police force. Just on a smaller scale.
I can see how that could be so...your response is rather ambiguous, what are your thoughts on the subject?
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg256 View Post
I can see how that could be so...your response is rather ambiguous, what are your thoughts on the subject?
The ones that can hack it will succeed, the ones that cannot will be kicked out, or sent to admin jobs.

I'm neither here nor there with it...women are allowed in all positions in the Coast Guard.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:01 PM   #14
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All kinds, operators, Infantry, Marines. Also, I've carried a guy in training at near exhaustion and I could barely do it. And I've seen plenty of girls in the same situation that were able to keep up with the best of them. It shouldn't be about sex, it should be about performance, and honestly I think the military standards are quite lax these days when it comes to PT standards.

Check out some of the girls doing GORUCK. They are doing events I can't get guys to do. Most of these girls are even doing two or three a year, and a ton of other strength based events that most men never accomplish.

We aren't talking about all women, just the ones that make the cut. There won't be many that are going to apply the aren't up to the task.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Brown View Post
I've carried a guy in training at near exhaustion and I could barely do it.
Carrying a 200lb meat sack isn't easy

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Originally Posted by Mr. Brown View Post
And I've seen plenty of girls in the same situation that were able to keep up with the best of them. It shouldn't be about sex, it should be about performance,
Agreed
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:09 PM   #16
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I hope they don't have different standards like they do for PFT. I understand some women can hack it better than some men but in my opinion..if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:51 AM   #17
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As a man with two granddaughters, I don't like it.
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:34 AM   #18
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As a man with two granddaughters, I don't like it.
So you'd rather your grand daughter is told "No-you can't do that job-You are a woman" if they want to try?? It's already been said - This doesn't mean every woman will go to the pointy end of a spear....The are going to have to want it, meet the standards, and contribute to the mission like everyone else. I'm pretty sure it'll be a special type of woman that seeks jobs on the front line.

I think the double standard for males vs females doesn't necessarily make sense...but like any change-That'll work itself out.
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:05 AM   #19
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considering that the traditional sense of a "front line" does not exist in modern warfare it doesn't matter. a bullet, mortar, or IED does not discriminate nor do they target only combat arms troops. there will still be certain jobs not open to them though such as SF or Rangers (they will not change the physical standards), i don't see that changing at all.
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:16 AM   #20
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As if the sexual assault rate wasnt high enough in the military...
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