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Old 06-12-2009, 04:34 PM   #21
come on fhqwhgads
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Originally Posted by Janster View Post
Exactly...

And the way the economy is right now, from what I've heard....a lot of jobless people are flocking to enlist. The military has cracked down on enlistment requirements so its harder to get in.

A guy I work with who is 29 years old tried to enlist and didn't get accepted.
What branch? I know age limit to enlist in the Marine Corps is 28, but Army is 40 or 42.
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:42 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by dgerm View Post
I am not saying that everyone has to join as infantry. Plus I figured it would work itself out because the people who don't want to do it won't be busting their asses to advance, while the people who want to would be.

When I was speaking to the recruiter about roles where I would get to use arabic, he went over some civilian assistance jobs. Basically soldiers come in after war, or disasters with aid, food, water, medical treatment etc.

I am sure this crowd is well aware of this fact, but not every job in the military involves fighting. I fail to see where someone could not fit in a specific niche
There is no niche for stereotypical hippies or druggies-most folks in those groups have little to no desire the help the gov't....or people without skills or motovation. You speak Arabic...pretty serious specialized skill. Some of the guys I graduated HS with had no skills or work ethic.

I'm looking at it from a military middle level manager- I spend enough time working to fix problems for (finances, family life, qualifications, training, health) and problems with (performance, attitude, appearance) for folks who are volunteers...If I had to manage all the same things...but some tree hugger who is anti violence/war/military/authority/gov't is in my shop....It's going to be like herding cats. It's hard enough to mete out discipline now-a-days anyways...Mandatory would make it that much harder.
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:42 PM   #23
come on fhqwhgads
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I think we should have less media coverage of all the shit going on over in the sandbox. People bitch because we've been there for what, almost 6 years now?

Guess what, take the media out and let the 03's and 11b's do what they do best. Without media there, they will have no problem doing what they need to do to take care of the situation. With the media there, every single fuckup that is made is blown out of proportion when it gets back home and it makes the Marines and Soldiers look bad.

Let infantry do their fucking job. Keep civilians out of the fucking warzones.
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:46 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Brunes View Post
Horrible Idea...I have to deal with too many people who don't want to do their jobs and they volunteered to be there- They make my work hard enough.

Making everyone do it would make that problem MUCH worse....not to mention the expense of it....Accession, Basic/Advanced Training-Then housing and pay and medical, and finally release training....Not worth it.
What exactly is release training
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:48 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunes View Post
There is no niche for stereotypical hippies or druggies-most folks in those groups have little to no desire the help the gov't....or people without skills or motovation. You speak Arabic...pretty serious specialized skill. Some of the guys I graduated HS with had no skills or work ethic.

I'm looking at it from a military middle level manager- I spend enough time working to fix problems for (finances, family life, qualifications, training, health) and problems with (performance, attitude, appearance) for folks who are volunteers...If I had to manage all the same things...but some tree hugger who is anti violence/war/military/authority/gov't is in my shop....It's going to be like herding cats. It's hard enough to mete out discipline now-a-days anyways...Mandatory would make it that much harder.
I understand completely what you are saying. I guess I am naive to think that if people had to recieve military training, they would turn out different, and have more respect for the country and the world we live in.

I base my opinions around on of my best friends from high school. I met him because he got expelled (weed) from his school and had to come to mine. He was the kind of person that would do anything to get high or a buzz: chug cough syrup, chug $.99 bottles of Listerine from 7-11, inhale dust off, etc.

After a year of college he dropped out and went into the army. Finished basic and went to airborn, finished airborn and ultimately finished as an Army ranger. Now he is special forces waiting to be deployed in august.

The military really turned his life around so I was hoping it could do the same for others. We say he has lived a life of extremes haha
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:48 PM   #27
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I would not trust any 2 year mandatory troop with a weapon or a wrench. I don't think the military would spend the money to train these non-vol's to do anything except broom repair. In "Band of Brothers" it shows how the volunteers treated or thought down about draftee’s. I'm sure a few would prove otherwise, but it all sounds like more paperwork than it's worth.
Not to mention the military's biggest expense is people, not new jets or ships. But it's the hardware that would be cut in order to pay the 2-year types.
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:51 PM   #28
come on fhqwhgads
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgerm View Post
I understand completely what you are saying. I guess I am naive to think that if people had to recieve military training, they would turn out different, and have more respect for the country and the world we live in.

I base my opinions around on of my best friends from high school. I met him because he got expelled (weed) from his school and had to come to mine. He was the kind of person that would do anything to get high or a buzz: chug cough syrup, chug $.99 bottles of Listerine from 7-11, inhale dust off, etc.

After a year of college he dropped out and went into the army. Finished basic and went to airborn, finished airborn and ultimately finished as an Army ranger. Now he is special forces waiting to be deployed in august.

The military really turned his life around so I was hoping it could do the same for others. We say he has lived a life of extremes haha
Key phrase here: The military really turned his life around.

It works for some people yeah, not all.


A couple of months ago, three Pittsburgh police officers were shot and killed by some fuckup that couldn't handle Parris Island.


Just cause it works for some, doesn't mean it'll work for all.
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:52 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgerm View Post
I understand completely what you are saying. I guess I am naive to think that if people had to recieve military training, they would turn out different, and have more respect for the country and the world we live in.

I base my opinions around on of my best friends from high school. I met him because he got expelled (weed) from his school and had to come to mine. He was the kind of person that would do anything to get high or a buzz: chug cough syrup, chug $.99 bottles of Listerine from 7-11, inhale dust off, etc.

After a year of college he dropped out and went into the army. Finished basic and went to airborn, finished airborn and ultimately finished as an Army ranger. Now he is special forces waiting to be deployed in august.

The military really turned his life around so I was hoping it could do the same for others. We say he has lived a life of extremes haha
He is a success story...but there are tons of folks-I'll PM you stories if you'd like...who go the other way. And thats not only in the military-My ex g/f from HS went CRAZY her first sem of college....Its the first taste of freedom for some...but doing it thru the military is asking for issues.
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:01 PM   #30
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Have not heard of TAPS, but I'm guessing its an acronym for something. The military is famous for acronyms
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:07 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR_Taco View Post
Have not heard of TAPS, but I'm guessing its an acronym for something. The military is famous for acronyms
Transition Assistance Program Seminar....It's about a week of training to help people get their stuff together to move out into the civilian world. Resumes, all that kinda stuff, plus time spent with supervisors to help individuals get ready to head out.
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:07 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunes View Post
He is a success story...but there are tons of folks-I'll PM you stories if you'd like...who go the other way. And thats not only in the military-My ex g/f from HS went CRAZY her first sem of college....Its the first taste of freedom for some...but doing it thru the military is asking for issues.
But that is the thing. My other friend elias went from being an insane druggie and dealer in high school to a marine success.

All these guys were good frineds and rugby teamates in highschool. I guess you can tell by the people I was friends with in highschool that I got my crazy experimental stage out early
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:19 PM   #33
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dgerm,

your examples are of friends who voluntarily enlisted and turned their life around. I look at like this; people quit smoking because they want to, not because of stuff like, smoking bans, taxation on cigarettes, or higher health insurance costs stuff the government imposes to force people to change. Now look at if people were forced to serve; they would view and treat it as a prison sentence...they wouldn't try;.where the commitment or dedication? Our military has been successful because we are an all volunteer force. Our biggest military set back happened in Vietnam in part because we initiated a draft on had men fighting who didn't support the cause. Even with the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, our government only toys with the idea of a draft....bottom line is it won't happen and shouldn't.
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:27 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steviestyles View Post
dgerm,

your examples are of friends who voluntarily enlisted and turned their life around. I look at like this; people quit smoking because they want to, not because of stuff like, smoking bans, taxation on cigarettes, or higher health insurance costs stuff the government imposes to force people to change. Now look at if people were forced to serve; they would view and treat it as a prison sentence...they wouldn't try;.where the commitment or dedication? Our military has been successful because we are an all volunteer force. Our biggest military set back happened in Vietnam in part because we initiated a draft on had men fighting who didn't support the cause. Even with the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, our government only toys with the idea of a draft....bottom line is it won't happen and shouldn't.
I understand completely. I knew from the beginning that it would never happen in the present-day US. But I think its is great for the countries that have it. In countries where is it considered and honor and duty to serve by all. Take Israel for example. They have one of the best trained and capable military on the planet. They don't have the luxury of being able to pick and choose their battles the way we do and the required service maintains their ability to defend themselves and go on the offensive if we let them.

Many of the European countries have it as well. There it is not viewed as a "jail sentence" but as an obligation, a duty on must fulfill before contributing as an adult to society.

I know it will NEVER happen, but if the US could ever take on that mentality, I thing it would benefit us greatly.
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:28 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunes View Post
Horrible Idea...I have to deal with too many people who don't want to do their jobs and they volunteered to be there- They make my work hard enough.

Making everyone do it would make that problem MUCH worse....not to mention the expense of it....Accession, Basic/Advanced Training-Then housing and pay and medical, and finally release training....Not worth it.
I'm not opposed to it but your right, with them not doing there job's so how about a choice of some type of service that makes them hold them selves personally resposible. This is America so we are free to do what we please so if I vote for something like that I would be ruining what I believe in.
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:32 PM   #36
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I'm not opposed to it but your right, with them not doing there job's so how about a choice of some type of service that makes them hold them selves personally resposible. This is America so we are free to do what we please so if I vote for something like that I would be ruining what I believe in.
Your beliefs are the same as mine, but I feel that being a member of a free society should be earned, not just given away. I think that in order to have the RIGHT to criticize your very own government, you first must contribute something to it in able to earn that right.
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:40 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by dgerm View Post
Your beliefs are the same as mine, but I feel that being a member of a free society should be earned, not just given away. I think that in order to have the RIGHT to criticize your very own government, you first must contribute something to it in able to earn that right.
Yeah but how I mean you lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink. If a person dosn't want to be a productive part of society there not going to. Voting is not a right it's a privilage so let's let only highschool graduate's vote if you don't get a education you cant vote .
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:56 PM   #38
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As a former soldier (Army) and a member of a military family, I firmly agree that EVERY high school student. Upon graduation should be required to serve 1 year on active duty (not including training time.) This includes women as well. You would be surprised how many people get into the military and never want to leave. They get used to the structured life and security.
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Old 06-12-2009, 06:43 PM   #40
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As the Coastie said we have a few who volunteered that need to have a babysitter. I always laugh when I hear people say that the kids who need discipline should be made to serve. Just because their parents could handle them, now its my job? Yes some would do well if made to join, but why not open the industry you work in, adopt a troubled teen or 20something into a mentorship program. Why cant people step up and contribute to the community by helping someone who needs direction. Passing the buck is too easy. The US military is not a big reform school. You think its easy to teach a young adult about character, integrity and responsibility, try it with incoming.
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