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Airborne09 02-17-2012 01:44 AM

New Army PT test
 
So what are everyone views on the new PT test the SMA Chandler is proposing?

I think its a pretty damn good idea, adding the ruck march in and lengthening the run. I know for a fact that half the people in my unit couldn't pass a ruck march if they tried, or run 4 miles let alone 2.

Justin W 02-17-2012 01:49 AM

all i know is they need to make up there mind on what they want to do...

Konaborne 02-17-2012 02:31 AM

current drawdown would come down to who can pass the new APRT....
intense stuff. Would make the Air Assault ruck less of a kick in the kidney to noobs like me though.


but ROTC's still running the APFT, so idt it would even affect me for awhile...
:popcorn:

Airborne09 02-17-2012 03:03 AM

Well their wanting it put into play army wide by Oct. 1st.

And kinda like the Air Assault, I had females in my class that passed the ruck easy so if a female can do it then a male better be able to. Which is why I'm happy their trying to add a ruck to the test.

Devious6 02-17-2012 03:24 AM

It's interesting how the APRT changes over time - always looking for the "best" way to test for fitness. Thank God we're past the idiotic days of the Inverted Crawl, the Run, Dodge and Jump, and the Horizontal Bars aka the Perverted Crawl, the Slip, trip and Fall and the Horizontal Hand Destroyer.

I think that anything that tests the strength and abilities needed in combat is focused properly. But, how many times will you need to run 4 miles at once? Certainly, having the stamina to do that is important - but a timed 4 mile run doesn't mean much in the greater scheme, IMHO. And, as one who has severe knee arthritis (an old knee injury made much worse by first running in boots and then long slow-paced runs) establishing a run of that duration means that daily training runs will become even longer and more damaging to knees and feet.

Just my own - and old - perspective. But, while I htink the ruck march is a good move, pushing the run to 4 miles is, I think, detrimental in the long run (no pun intended).

Airborne09 02-17-2012 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devious6 (Post 4578136)
It's interesting how the APRT changes over time - always looking for the "best" way to test for fitness. Thank God we're past the idiotic days of the Inverted Crawl, the Run, Dodge and Jump, and the Horizontal Bars aka the Perverted Crawl, the Slip, trip and Fall and the Horizontal Hand Destroyer.

I think that anything that tests the strength and abilities needed in combat is focused properly. But, how many times will you need to run 4 miles at once? Certainly, having the stamina to do that is important - but a timed 4 mile run doesn't mean much in the greater scheme, IMHO. And, as one who has severe knee arthritis (an old knee injury made much worse by first running in boots and then long slow-paced runs) establishing a run of that duration means that daily training runs will become even longer and more damaging to knees and feet.

Just my own - and old - perspective. But, while I think the ruck march is a good move, pushing the run to 4 miles is, I think, detrimental in the long run (no pun intended).

The 4 mile run is a bit excesive, but I almost think it is needed because half the time most people don't train for more than 2 miles, and with a 4 mile run it will force people to pace themselves more than just going full throttle for 2 straight miles. Yes it most certainly will wear down peoples feet and knees. I came into the Army with bad knees from years of playing baseball (catcher) and then with 34 jumps under my belt, they ain't the best anymore that's for sure ha.
So I can see your point on the running. But the ruck I can definately feel is a much needed event.

Devious6 02-17-2012 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airborne09 (Post 4578418)
The 4 mile run is a bit excesive, but I almost think it is needed because half the time most people don't train for more than 2 miles, and with a 4 mile run it will force people to pace themselves more than just going full throttle for 2 straight miles. Yes it most certainly will wear down peoples feet and knees. I came into the Army with bad knees from years of playing baseball (catcher) and then with 34 jumps under my belt, they ain't the best anymore that's for sure ha.
So I can see your point on the running. But the ruck I can definately feel is a much needed event.

I definately feel the ruck march is needed. We did quarterly 25 mile full-gear marches when I was in 7th ID - the 9th Regiment standard was under 8 hours. COnditioning was a must.

In terms of the run, I'd prefer to see them require periodic pre-testing - say every month or two - so that people don't wait until the last minute to try to force their way through the APRT. As it is, you'll be seeing units doing 8 to 10 mile runs regularly to "prep" people...and you'll still see as many people fail the 4 mile as you see fail the 2 now. Same thing, different distance.

13BGriff 03-18-2012 03:49 AM

I've been in for 8 years, 4+ of those I've been deployed, my knees are shot. I can push myself through the 2 mile but 4, I think I might be weeded out. The ruck, I have absolutely no problem with. I've always been a pack mule, not a stallion. I do see a problem with all of this though. Our 300+PT guys who will have no problem with this are also the guys who struggle with the day to day physicality of my job in artillery. I'm 210lbs can walk with a 96lbs. on my shoulder all day without slowing down. These 150lbs. guys struggle with the first few and then they're just useless but can run as the day is long.

It's going to end up being the slim, trim and just for show army where a lot of guys in the same situation are told they aren't wanted anymore but when deployments come up and the job we trained for happens we're going to be deficient. That kind of planning is above my paygrade though.

Devious6 03-18-2012 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13BGriff (Post 4757758)
I've been in for 8 years, 4+ of those I've been deployed, my knees are shot. I can push myself through the 2 mile but 4, I think I might be weeded out. The ruck, I have absolutely no problem with. I've always been a pack mule, not a stallion. I do see a problem with all of this though. Our 300+PT guys who will have no problem with this are also the guys who struggle with the day to day physicality of my job in artillery. I'm 210lbs can walk with a 96lbs. on my shoulder all day without slowing down. These 150lbs. guys struggle with the first few and then they're just useless but can run as the day is long.

It's going to end up being the slim, trim and just for show army where a lot of guys in the same situation are told they aren't wanted anymore but when deployments come up and the job we trained for happens we're going to be deficient. That kind of planning is above my paygrade though.

I understand what you're saying here. I spent my first 13 years in the Army as an artillery officer - trained in cannon, LANCE missile and survey/target acquisition - in 8", 155mm SP, LANCE, and 105mm (M119) battalions. My last arty job was as the BN FSO with 2/8 FA serving as regimental FSO to 9th Infantry Regiment at Fort Ord. I was never a fast runner but could always complete any distance formation run and hump a ruck as well as anyone.

13 years of running, maybe 4 or 5 back when we still ran in boots, and the rest tore up my knees and I got tagged on a physical with degenerative arthritis in my right knee. The doctor told me he was going to put me through an MMRB and put me out. I was, somehow, able to convince him that if he let me transfer to a non-combat arms branch, I wouldn't have to run any more. :p Two weeks later, I was wearing MI brass and moved to the division G2 shop and later was the XO for 107th MI at Fort Ord, still running and humping a ruck.

At that point, long distance runs were excruciating - tons of Motrin kept me going. A 4 mile run would have been hard - not from the conditioning perspective, just from the pain management side. And, I don't really think that it really provides any true assessment of conditioning in relation to the tasks a Soldier needs to be able to complete.

Hell, the old Run, Dodge and Jump replicated current requirements more than a 4 mile run does, IMHO.

The good news is, though, that I get to pontificate from the perspective of a retiree. I have the utmost respect for those of you still serving.

RC Base07 03-18-2012 05:50 PM

What is the new pt test comprised of? 4-mile run, XX mile ruck, shuttle run, pull-ups, PU, SU? Something like that?

Airborne09 03-20-2012 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC Base07 (Post 4760696)
What is the new pt test comprised of? 4-mile run, XX mile ruck, shuttle run, pull-ups, PU, SU? Something like that?


They haven't said what all the events are gonna be, but from what I've read its gonna be something like..
12 mile ruck (4 hours), 4 mile run, push ups, rower, and possibly pull ups...
It hasn't been finalized yet and we won't know until May.

Slimwood Shady 03-25-2012 05:41 AM

Here is an article released about it...

http://www.theleafchronicle.com/arti...ource=timeline

Duaneyo1 03-25-2012 06:01 AM

Disclaimer: My military experience is zero. Here are my thoughts on the subject: The shuttle run sounds valuable. After all the men and women who are currently running outside of training are dodging bullets or running to cover. The long march with gear would make sure someone has a level of strength and endurance to do the day to day jobs in the military. The 4 mile run seems excessive. It's the training for a 4 mile run that going to be hard on the knees and joints. There's just too many other ways to test fitness that are easier on the body.

Buddha4 03-26-2012 06:48 PM

I have no issues with a more challengin APFT but you have to keep in mind that since it has to be given for AC/RC/ and ARNG. Realistically how is a RC or ARNG going to conduct a test with a road march during a drill weekend and do anything else? there are certain conditions for the 2 mile run. what terrain is considered for a ruck?

The article is interesting with the title then quotes "The recommendation will be "

SOSHeloPilot 03-26-2012 07:27 PM

.
FWIW ... it won't take long to blow out the knees of the little guys with 100 lbs on their backs on a long march.

I was 5'-8" and a 160, in great shape with no fat, when I was in ... but humping 105 lbs on my back damn near killed me.

Take that weight off my back (or lighten it substantially) and I could run all day.
.

Taco Gunner 03-30-2012 05:18 PM

I had an USAF E-9 tell a group of us SNCO's that the new fitness test is part of an overall RIF program. I looked him at with the "Are you fucking kidding!?" look and he asked me "Are you surprised?" I said "No, just surprised you openly admitted it to a group of us." He also asked me why he should keep a guy who has been working on the same helicopter for 20+ years but cannot run when he can get a younger guy fresh out of boot camp who cannot tell the difference between an flat head and phillips...and do it for less!!

The guy is a total fuck bag with ZERO operational experience. He was an admin DB.

Honestly, I feel this is less about military fitness than it is weeding people out. From what I have seen lately, the branches are lacking in ANY sort of leadership (save for a few). I would be hard pressed to recommend anyone join the service right now...unfortunately.


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