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magnet on street bike?

Discussion in 'Motorcycles' started by Nitronick, May 3, 2010.

  1. May 5, 2010 at 6:04 PM
    #21
    04YodaTaco

    04YodaTaco Well-Known Member

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    I wait a bit, then I backpedal and let the clutch out moving the bike forward again. This occasionally works. If I can take a right on red I will and take a different route to my destination. If I cannot (like an intersection with turning lanes) I look both ways carefully and blow the red light.

    I tried the kickstand thing and it always worked at one particular intersection but no others. I have no idea why.
     
  2. May 25, 2010 at 1:06 PM
    #22
    Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey There's an evil monkey in my truck

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    They don't do squat. I did my own test of these devices. I took my motorcycle out and tripped a known good light. I avoided all the sensors except the one closest to the light. It worked like it should. So the light had no problem seeing my bike without the trigger. The instructions included with the magnet state that you should ride up the left edge of the sensor. I already knew that this was the best place to ride to trip a sensor on a motorcycle from a MSF course I had taken. I think they were just using that information and claiming that their device was what tripped it.

    Next I took the sensor and manually waved it over the sensor trying to stay within 1" above the sensor wire. I ran it back and forth and also inline with the sensor groove to simulate a vehicle over the sensor. No effect.

    Why should this have worked? Because magnetic fields decay/increase in strength at a square of the distance. To make the math easier, I'll assume a typical motorcycle will have it mounted about 8" from the ground. So by keeping it within 1" of the ground the field of the magnet should have been 32x more powerful than it would have been at 8".

    Plus, when you go over the wire, you're travelling in a direction that won't induce anything into the coil (parallel to the trip sensor wire). In order for a magnetic field to induce into a sensor, it has to travel perpendicular to the coil.

    Also, the magnets in these triggers are so weak they won't hold the trigger to the bike. If it won't even stick to the bike, there's no way it's doing anything to the coil at the distance it's mounted (1/32nd the field strength).
     
  3. Jul 29, 2010 at 1:48 PM
    #23
    Pugga

    Pugga Pasti-Dip Free 1983 - 2015... It was a good run

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    Gun it and run it... works every time. Results may vary.


    Kidding obviously, I live in a very unpopulated area (not really sure why there are lights there at all to be honest) so I usually stop, make sure no one's around, then take off.

    Does anyone know what those things are that Dennis Kirk sells to trip the traffic light sensors? Is that just a magnet?
     
  4. Jul 29, 2010 at 2:01 PM
    #24
    m0nster986

    m0nster986 ♥ Emergency Medicine

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    I roll my bike back and forth or ask the car behind to pull up a bit.
     
  5. Jul 29, 2010 at 2:39 PM
    #25
    ScubaCougr

    ScubaCougr Active Member

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    Triggering the loop does not equal triggering an immediate light. This depends entirely on how the signal is programmed.

    It may be working perfectly, but take a minute or two to give you a green, especially if it's a relatively dumb signal controller that works in a fixed rotation of signals (EW, then NS turns, then NS, then EW turns, repeat).

    More modern signals sense you in the turn lane, and if nobody else is waiting, preempt the normal rotation and speed you on your way.

    Jiggling, dancing and other tricks won't help the light change faster. It' already sensed you're there and working on it. Or the loop is busted and your dancing still gets you nowhere but amuses those watching.

    /public works employee.
     
  6. Jul 30, 2010 at 7:59 AM
    #26
    Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey There's an evil monkey in my truck

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    He's not talking about making the light change faster. He's talking about just making it trip so it knows you're even there. If the sensor doesn't see the bike, the light won't change at all. For bikes it doesn't always sense that you're there because bikes either don't have enough mass or there's not enough metal to trip the sensor based on it's current sensitivity setting. If the sensitivity of the sensor is set too low, the light won't know you're there. I've sat through multiple light changes without it recognizing the bike. As soon as a car pulls up behind me, it trips (so the sensor isn't broken).

    The most sensitive side of the loop is the left side nearest the center of the road. If you ride up the left edge of the sensor, it's more likely to sense you're there than any other part of the sensor. So it's possible that side to side rocking can trip the sensor if you missed it slightly when you rode up. There's similar sensor setup that opens the gate where I live. If I ride anywhere but down the middle, it won't trip. On my on/off road bike, it won't trip at all regardless where I ride up.

    For motorcyclists in general, there are four types of sensor patterns that I've seen: squares, diamonds, circles and two long connected rectangles (you can see the grooves if it hasn't been paved over). Diamonds, squares and circles are the most common so if you don't see the pattern in the pavement, it's probably best to assume it's one of these three.

    For the squares, ride up the left edge right over top of the lines and stop at the uppermost left corner of the last sensor. For the diamonds, run over the left most point, stopping over the last diamond's left peak. For the circles, ride up the left-most point of the circle, stopping on the last circle's left-most point. For the rectangles, ride up the middle of the line between the two long rectangles.

    Another thing one can do is put the side stand down on the sensor line, although some bikes will conk out if the side stand is down and the bike is in gear.

    For lights that one encounters regularly that won't trip, contact the city and ask them to have the light's sensor adjusted so it will recognize your bike.
     
  7. Jul 30, 2010 at 8:38 AM
    #27
    Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    Since I've actually worked on those systems. There is a loop specifically there is two loops spaced out somewhat two in a row sort of idea. . What you want to do is try to stop crossing both loops. Bikes might be too short to bridge the gap of the loops. Bridging the loops completes the circuit and starts the timer to change the lights..

    If you come up behind a car and notice there over the first loop come up behind stopping on the second loop and just try to get the back tire on the second loop and get the front tire close to there bumper. 2 feet will work.

    It will trip. Sometimes the road loops turn off at different times depending how there set up. All else fails get off and push the walk button.

    The key is cross both loops to complete the circuit.. Ones a transmitter and one is a receiver looking for metal.

    You see people do this, come up to the light too fast and actually pull pass both loops. Buddy your going to be there for days. I'll come up behind them and park across both loops. They think something wrong and keep creeping into the intersection and magically the lights change and they think they figured it out. No it was me sitting cross both loops that tripped them.

    If you don't like waiting look for the loops. Stop on both. The better you stop the faster they will change. Still runs the program though. Sometimes there is three then you're doomed you have to wait till traffic piles up. Usually the third one is 6 car lengths back or more. You need a line of cars then to trip it.

    This tip has to be worth some gas right there.

    The other one you will see is the first car will be across the first loop and some bozo will come up behind and stop short of the second loop. The cars will be way to far apart to trip the lights and they will just sit there. Eventually they may move closer or somebody will properly stop in a different lane and trip the lights. Best is drive really slow over the loops coming to a stop. Stop across both loops. That usually means you have to stop short of the line. It's set up to make it so it takes two cars to trip it. One at the line, one behind.

    Bikes may not trip them not cause of lack of metal it's the wheel base is to short to bridge the gap. So best is go slow and get right in between both loops. The loops have some power and will detect metal from about 2 feet at least away. Would a magnet work ? I don't think so. It's not how they work, Think metal detector. If they have been paved over and you can't see where they are the first loop is where the trunk of the car would be if it stopped at the line. So stop short. Front tire where the trunk would be and you maybe just lucky enough the back tire will be close enough to trip. If it don't trip move back slightly. Forward is not the direction to go.
     
  8. Jul 30, 2010 at 9:21 AM
    #28
    Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey There's an evil monkey in my truck

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    Not sure if I'm reading you correctly. Are you saying that as I approach the light, I have to span the two sets of cut groves in the road? So when I approach the light and see three sets of diamonds or squares I have to bridge over the front of the second square and the back of the first square? I don't think that is correct. My understanding is that each cut in the road is a seperate induction loop. When your metal vehicle passes over the loop, it changes the inductance of the circuit which triggers the light (nothing to do with transmitters and receivers). The multiple squares tell the system that more than one car is stacked up at the light. I've tripped the sensor by touching only the last sensor while avoiding the others on purpose (see my post above concerning the magnet test). I successfully trip sensors by riding on the left corner of diamond-shaped and circle-shaped cuts. As the bike is only about 63" long, it couldn't possibly span more than one loop. I've even seen bicycles trip the light by riding up the left edge.

    Won't work if you're in a left turn lane. Plus you can get a ticket for abandoning your vehicle if a Leo happens to see it.
     
  9. Jul 30, 2010 at 9:46 AM
    #29
    Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    Depending on the system some might have two buried in the same grove spaced apart sightly. You see that type on low traffic intersections. It's made to trip just with a single car instead of two.

    It works in the left turn lane too I do it every day. I always get a advance left signal even with only my taco sitting there. Must puzzle some people, Stop short (two car lengths) creep to the line. Can't get a ticket, your not doing any thing wrong. Just make sure you are actually doing a proper stop when your done. In Canada you would never get a ticket if you got out and pushed the button. I bet even the Cops do it. I've seen City bus drivers do it. Some main roads here it is the only way to get across them, Otherwise you're turning right. I don't get out, I turn right then left at the next block. Or wait for a pedestrian to push the button.

    If there is three chances are the third last one is only on at rush hour. Just bridge the gap on the first two. If it is on at least you are on the front two properly so it will trip faster then as cars stop behind you.

    It is a induction loop, your metal completes the circuit. The circuit is across both loops.

    Go for a drive try it out. Your going to be grinning. Master of the lights !
     
  10. Jul 30, 2010 at 9:47 AM
    #30
    detnight

    detnight Well-Known Member

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    I travel the same way to work everyday and know the lights.When you leave the house at 03:40 there are not to many cars out. Some of the lights will run thru 3 cycles of turning lanes of the main road before the cross street gets a green and one of the lights takes a little over 10 mins to change........ I run alot of lights on the way to work or cut thru some parking lots and one bank drive thru backwards. I the afternoon there are plenty of cars on the road so I have know problem. Been doing it for 15yrs without a being stopped.
     
  11. Jul 30, 2010 at 10:07 AM
    #31
    paintdiddy

    paintdiddy Machine gun shits

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    i think its all bullshit. just wait the 3 minutes or take a different route
     
  12. Jul 30, 2010 at 10:20 AM
    #32
    Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    Some older lights might not have road sensors. They're just on timers, they're the worse kind. They are never set up properly cause the traffic patterns are dynamic and not set in stone. Sounds like you have that type.(detnight) BUT try my tip. Stop short so the engine is sitting where the trunk of the car in front would be if stopped on the line. Just sit there if there is road senors it will trip. Even short wheel base cars can trip them if stopped properly like Rav 4's and Kit cars even. It's not BS it's how it works. It's not magic.
     
  13. Aug 12, 2010 at 9:18 AM
    #33
    Hellmutt

    Hellmutt Well-Known Member

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    sadly, I've only put Husky Liners in it thus far - tend to blow all my cash on my bikes and guitars.
    i got suckered into buying one of those "Green Light Triggers" for my last bike - but couldn't really say that it worked or didn't work........lost it somewhere after a few years of riding and never bought another one -- now my new bike has a magnetic antenna mount bolted into the lower instead and it hasn't performed much differently ( that i can tell ) than the store bought version - but it's definitely a stronger magnet than what is sold for this purpose and only cost me like $8.
     

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