Tires for Seattle area

Not sure where to post this question. I did a searched and after reading 30+ threads I gave up.

I have a 1990 Toyota 4x4 with BF Goodrich TA/KO 31x10.50R15LT.
I plan to buy a new 2012 Tacoma Access cab 4x4, which will come with 265/70/16 wheels and whatever tire.

1. Can I transfer the wheels/tires from the 90 to the 12 Tacoma?
1(a). Put the 2012 wheels/tires on the 90?
2. Should I keep the 16 wheels on the 2012 and if so, what would be a comparable tire to the BF Goodrich for general use up in the Seattle/coastal/mountain?

 

Nobody can tell you what you can do and/or install on a vehicle that nobody has seen and for all we know dosen't exist yet. No clue if there will be changes to the wheels and nobody else is going to know for sure either. If they do know, it's simply because they have come from the future riding shotgun with Marty McFly. We should know next month

 

The bolt patterns will probably match up. Thru the 2011 model they are the same. The issue that will most likely prevent you from using the '90 model wheels on the new Tacoma will be the much larger brakes and brake calipers on the new Tacomas. The old 15" wheels probably wont clear the calipers.

 

The 15 inch wheels will definitely not clear the caliper.

 

Thanks. I'll more than likely hang onto the 90 and just keep the wheels and tires as is and get something new for the newer 2012.

Thanks.

 

Sorry man historically speaking, what has been posted may be true. But nobody can be sure whats to come. Hope you got at least a laugh out of your first response.

 

Thanks, I'm good.
Sometimes I wonder why people post a response that is basically non productive to a hypothetically known, rather than just think it out loud to themselves...but, I know that when you post on these forums you get what you get and if you get all butt sore about it you shouldn't come in.

I posted this with the knowledge that the majority of reports indicate that there are essentially very few changes.

 

Back to being productive...Depending on the size of the wheel compared to the caliper, you may be able to get wheel spacers to prevent any rubbing. If the wheels are important for you to keep, you can probably find a way as long as the lugs line up.

 

Not really, actually the wheels are old, but I really like the tires and I have the Discount Tire warranty.
I'll wait an see, but it looks like I'll keep the stock wheels with the 2012, run them for at least a set of the stock tires and go from there. Maybe some new wheels at time of purchase and sell the stock setup...dunno. It would be nice to know what tires I'll be using in the Seattle area.
Thanks.

 

There is always trial and error. Just mount them and see when the time comes. If it dosent work you can pull them back off and all you are out is about an hour of time. Good luck

 

From what is known, the 2012 is supposed to be 'minor changes'. Based on this and trends, I don't see the truck getting any smaller, therefore the rim size should be the same.

2005+ use a 16" or 17" wheel, about 5.3" backspace or so. The caliper is not going to allow 15" rims. When buying aftermarket rims, be sure that the rim clears the caliper. DO NOT grind the caliper down, there are several people who have cut through liquid chambers.

It would be monumental if the lug pattern changed. Expect the same 5 or 6 lug pattern as before.

I would expect the only change to the stock 2012 is that the Rugged Trail tires get changed to the new Rugged Terrain T/A. If you offroad, expect that you will need to rely on traction devices more than a M/T, but you can still go to play.

Tire choice is dependent on what you want to do. The BFG A/T like you had before is a good all-around choice; for cheaper you could try a TreadWright Warden. Another choice would be GoodYear Duratrec tires.
For more on-road, try Michelen LTX
For more off-road, there are tons of options.

 

Thanks.
Nice read on your build. I saved a few of the mods.
I was trying to save money and the smart thing to do is keep what's on the 90 and start fresh with the 2012.

What did you mean by M/T?
For traction devices, the plan is to get 4x4 TRD Off-Road. Not that I'm a rock banger, but I plan on doing snowy fire/logging/power line roads, sand (beaches, desert washes)...B/C...maybe Alaska and want all that is available.
The whole eLSD, ARB, Fully Open Differential and Selectable is all new reading to me.
I've been searching the forums for some good reading on this issue.

 

M/T = mud terrain
TRD OR package has some great stuff in it, definitely a viable upgrade. You can go with an SR5, do your own upgrades for less, and come out with a more offroad-capable rig, but you need to know what you are doing more and be able to install.

here's some basics (hopefully I get it all right):

open differential = one wheel delivers power. This is a common setup in 2WD cars, trucks, and basic 4WD vehicles. Note that in 4WD, you tend to have a setup where the left rear delivers power and the right front delivers power. When the power wheel encounters enough resistance, it can transfer some power to the other wheel.

LSD = limited slip differential. When the drive wheel is slipping, the vehicle uses something like the ABS brake system to try to apply resistance so the non-powered wheel can receive some power. For our trucks, this is only installed on the rear axle (in the little I know, I've never heard of a front axle LSD for any vehicle)

locking differential = both wheels move at the same speed, no matter what. It is possible to have a secondary front locker on a vehicle as well

TRAC/ATRAC = toyota's new (well, since 2009 for us) system that mimics a locking differential. Similar to the LSD, this system uses the ABS to brake the wheel that is spinning in the hopes that the system can get both wheels going at the same speed. Now, there is a big argument over front lockers vs. ATRAC here on this forum, but it can be boiled down in this summary:
-Lockers are better than ATRAC
-ATRAC does a damn good job. The average Joe probably won't notice a difference.

To learn how to use ATRAC, you can consult DavidK. Be warned, he's definitely established himself as the bible-thumping prophet of ATRAC, but he's also extremely helpful and knowledgeable on the use of the system.

ARB is a company, among many, that makes offroad gear. You are probably thinking about their air locker in this context. That product would be installed on the front axle of the vehicle as an aftermarket item.

If you are interested in offroading, I would highly recommend a club (or some members, like Digiratus) to show you how to properly use your vehicle safely, plus how to recover. Just like you have jumper cables, there's some basic gear you should have, and you need to know how to properly use it.

 

My wife and I were just in Beaverton (we also went to the coast a couple of times) in June on a brewpub/seafood vacation. Spent some time in the Kennedy School brewpub drinking the Rubinator...not to mention we hit every brewpub in town (I only drink locally brewed beers). I have to say, I'm not a big fan of the hoppy beers you guys have up there. After a week I started to get heartburn...just sayin.

Ok, great info post. Thanks for taking the time.
Clarification: I see TRD OR has A-TRAC instead of TRAC that is incorporated into the eLock rear diff? I ask this because of your comment about "Lockers are better than ATRAC"
I'm reading up on the SR5 do my own upgrade concept that you mention. My ADD is kicking in trying to see what you get/don't get. I'm seeing the shocks and eLock along with HAC and DAC, engine skid plate, front tow hook and 114v power point....oh yeah, most importantly the TRD graphics.
this difference in cost seems to be about $1845 according to the build your own Tacoma. Is there a cost savings doing this on my own?
I am certainly capable of doing my own mods.

SO, here is another question to throw into this...or just keep it out for another time. PreRunner with eLock versus 4x4 with same strictly from a functional perspective.
Also, keeping in mind that I have a 1990 4x4 that I plan to turn into a more capable off-road truck and take to the dirty places...not rock crawling or severe OR'ing, but into the mtns, logging roads, beach/sand etc. Something to take to trailheads mountain biking/snow shoeing where I'm not worried about leaving a new truck parked. Stupid question regarding the manually locking front hubs. Does this mean they are a "locking differential" as in both wheels move at the same speed?
Just wondering about this thinking regarding 4x4 versus PreRunner.
The cost is not an issue, the loss of mpg is not an issue. It's more about real function to cost ratio. I'm reading and hearing that a PreRunner with eLocker rear diff is pretty capable of most sand/snow driving. This will help me decide the necessity of 4x4 of my newer truck. I say this so others don't say, "It's a personal preference" or "only you can decide that") I get all that, just want to hear from PreRunner users who take their trucks into the she'it.

I hope I don't get flammed for asking retarded questions. This is a info gathering quest to help me make a sound decision what to do and what to get.
I appreciate the well thought out responses and or opinions from you guys.

 

There's a lot of beers to choose from. Last time I checked Portland was the microbrew capital of the world?
I think my favorite local beer would be Rogue Irish Lager.

-ATRAC comes on TRD OR, TRAC is on the other trim levels. ATRAC works on all 4 wheels, a locker can be engaged while ATRAC is on.

-the rear locker on the TRD OR is engaged via an electronic switch. After that, it's all mechanical parts that, as said, force the tires to move at the same speed no matter what. The drawback is that on cornering, it's desirable to have the outside wheel moving at a speed quicker than the inside wheel (if you draw it on paper, you can see the outside wheel has a lot more area to cover during a turn). Also it can make things harder to steer. ATRAC is more of a system with computer logic to determine how best to distribute power. It does a good job doing what it does, but the drawback is that it pulses and the computer requires feedback to determine what to do.

I found DavidK's big ATRAC bible, which is a pretty good read.

Anyway, here's some videos that should give some good examples:

In this first one, ignore that the driver has a rear locker. What I want you to focus on is the front axle, specifically the tire in the air at 00:25. This is a good example of how even though he has 4WD, he has an open front differential. The tire in the air is his 'powered' tire, which can't transfer power to the tire on the ground since there is no resistance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxGIaHhQiIw&feature=related

Here is an example of ATRAC being helpful. Notice how the front wheel pulses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srLIqQSdwRI&feature=related

Here's an example of ATRAC being bad, specifically at 00:13.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai0gMBklXGA&feature=related

Here's an example of a rear locker. Notice the smooth wheel movement as both rear wheels move at the same speed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N3l84pQA3U&feature=related

I didn't have a 'bad' example of using a locker, but as I mentioned, turning can be hindered.

SR5 doesn't have ATRAC, only TRAC. TRAC will throttle engine speed, and can't be used in 4LO.
Shocks aren't a big deal, because if you are building, you will most likely lift, and when you lift, you need new shocks anyway.
I haven't had HAC/DAC so I can't comment on usefulness. I have gotten by just fine with the auto tranny, which allows me to select all 5 gears. The gear reduction is pretty good, too.
engine skid is an add-on that can be added to any package, it doesn't come included... except some of the silly fancy packages. I don't care for it, I would recommend BudBuilt or similar. On the TRD OR, you do get a thin steel brush guard, which is good for pushing down tall grass.
Front tow hook isn't that great because it's a non-enclosed loop, which can be dangerous for recovery usage. I removed mine and sold it for $25
114v bed outlet is good for running lights and perhaps some small tools, but I haven't used it much... I keep wanting to use high amp stuff

TRD packages also come with:
-upgraded seats (I LOVE them)
-overhead compass/temp guage
-different wheels (big whoop, who cares)

Unless I'm missing something, an ARB front locker is $1,100 before labor. Talk to member all.on.black for more information, he's got it on his truck.

So all that said, I would step back and think over again how much you intend to toss at this truck and what you want it to do. If you truly want simple offroading, the TRD OR package is a great option. SR5 I would suggest if you want to truly go nuts.

That really isn't a bad idea at all, especially with the '90 being the trail rig. I think that would actually be a really smart idea. The new truck would have a locker and TRAC, which is going to get you through a good amount of stuff up to the point where you'd rather be driving the '90.
Based on your description of what you want to do with the '90, this new truck will easily handle the same terrain... might have some probs with sand, but that's about it?

Off a quick comparison from the web, there's a $3k difference between the TRD OR 4x4 and a TRD OR PreRunner. That 3 grand could do some significant mods to the '90:

Rock sliders $300
lift $800, maybe more?
33" tires with rims $1160
Front offroad bumper $600
Winch $1400

Give or take some on the armor and lift, but that's just a tad over $3k.

No, this is different.
Locking front hubs is what you had to do on older trucks, where you would have to get out of the vehicle and turn the red knob. On new vehicles, you simply twist a knob on the dash and it engages electronically. In both cases, it is activating the 4x4, open differential, system.

Myself (and the prerunner folks) are probably the only people you will hear that will suggest a PreRunner over 4x4. There's a huge misconception that EVERYONE needs 4x4 no matter what, when simply I think it's stupid to dump money on something you will never use, or use once in the entire history of the vehicle. A prerunner with a locker and TRAC is going to do a surprising amount of stuff, especially with a decent set of tires.

 

Couple things:

The '05+ models require a 16" or larger wheel with at least 4.5" of backspace to clear the calipers. So if your '90 doesn't meet those specs, you'l probably have to stick with the stockers.

I would recommend Goodyear Duratracs for the Seattle/surrounding area. In the winter it's wet ALL THE TIME and they have the best reviews for wet/snow traction I have seen. If you are going into the mountains in the winter, they are great for snow traction.

That being said, we had some decent snowfall this last winter and I was cruising past everyone on my stock Dunlops without engaging the 4x4. It's more about HOW you drive in Seattle. There are no plows and no salt.

 

The 90 4x4 with 4 cyl 22RE motor already has BF A/T 31x10.5 R15's on it. I wouldn't mind doing some rear differential mods to help make it a little more capable. I can't see putting a lift on it as it has done fine without it and just the bigger tires. The damn thing does fine in the desert sand and climbing around in the rocky stuff. Yeah, no serious crawling, then again I don't care for that. That's what the KTM or mtn bike is for.
It's seen snow in the winter and although it's been several years, I remember it doing fine. I grew up near Buffalo and know how to drive in the snow. I rarely actually engage the front hubs anymore.
I'm the original owner, I bought this new in 07/90 and it has only 133,500 miles. I have taken great care of it mechanically. The body and frame are perfect. The white paint is oxidized.
Would you agree that hanging on to this is the smart thing to do?
Put some money into it to to make it more dependable, a 4x4 capable truck and a everyday driver around town. Selling it isn't going to give me much money and I would be hard pressed to replace it. Especially since I know the history of this thing.

The new truck will be used to take trips (I need a dependable vehicle as I'm not taking the 90 on a trip) I'll haul a kayak probably on a rack either on the truck it's self or on a camper shell. I'd like to go into the mountains to hike, mountain bike, snow shoe.

Regarding the eLocker: I would only use it in a off-road situation to get through, get out of a situation not to drive on dry pavement. I pretty much understand what it's for.

SR5: Does it have a rear eLocker? If not, why would I get SR5?

TRD Off-Road 4x4:

PreRunner: Thanks for the input on this. Wouldn't I have to get the TRD Off-Road to get the eLocker?
I'm going to test drive a 4x4 TRD Off-Road and take it into a wash to see how it does with just the eLocker, using the 4x4 if I get stuck. IF, it pulls me through the sand I'll have a hard time justifying getting a 4x4.
If I did get a 4x4, I really don't plan on dumping thousands into it to make it a crazy 4x4. I would rather put that money into the 90. I think the 90 would be a perfectly fine 4x4.

You get where I'm going with all this babbling…just need some reassurance.

 

Geeeeeeez that '90 is brand new still. If you sold it private party, you could get quite a bit for it. If it's any indication, I don't have the finances for it or a real reason to get it, but the bad part of my brain is dreaming of how cool it would be to be behind that wheel. About 5 years ago I came close to getting a '91 and I still remember the test drive!

the '90 is going to be more trail-capable than a newer taco because the '90 is narrower. There's a lot of trees in the NW and a lot of squeezing. There's also a lot of brush you can avoid, whereas I have to "prune the forest".

the '90 is going to get better gas mileage

Really, with the 4x4 you do, I wouldn't add anything. If '90 isn't going to be a daily driver, buy some meaty mud terrains and call it a day. If you want to, I would suggest a winch from Harbor Freight. Before you freak out, the Harbor Freight winches actually did pretty well in some offroad magazines. I suggest it to you because they have a low cost and you aren't going to be pushing it. Alternatively, get a used one from craigslist. I just saw a few nice ones in Portland CL right before posting this.

yep, can't use locker on the pavement. Can't use 4x4 on dry pavement, either.

SR5 doesn't have locker. The idea is to save money by not buying TRD, then redirecting that money to aftermarket parts. However, with ATRAC, a locker, and some other niceties, I'm not seeing a ~huge~ benefit.

PreRunner: yes, you need the TRD OR package for this to get the locker. So, that's the PreRunner TRD Off Road package.

On the 4x4, you can't engage the locker without being in 4LO already. This is one of the reasons why guys will opt for an SR5 and add the ARB air locker.
For your test, you would want to start with the PreRunner TRD OR and test out your wash. Start in 2WD to make sure it's a worthy stuck situation, then activate the locker.
The main area where you would miss 4x4 is if you are in a situation where you have no traction from the rear. For this, you'd have to be in some gnarly mud, on a steep hill climb, or just have one of those really durr moments.
Mud, you can't help... and even 4x4 reaches a point
Steep hills you would have to hit with more speed
Durr moments require pictures



In summary?
-Add mud terrains to the 90
-A PreRunner TRD OR or a base 4x4 SR5 should be sufficient, anything beyond is goodies.


Just a thought for a second, does the new vehicle have to be a taco?
Doesn't have to be a truck since the '90 is footing that.
I don't know the MPG, but a used 4Runner is going to be more comfy and might fill a gap for you (lots of interior room, you can sleep in it, carry more people)
It may be a strange idea, but I'd look at a Subaru Outback. I rented one in Boise and it was bad mother. Very capable offroad - full time 4WD does pretty good, and I got through some cracked dirt paths that had some really uneven ground I didn't think a car should have gone through. Subie did great if I just took a bit extra time planning my path. Comfy, lots of room, and would cost close to or less than a new taco.

 

You are right about the 90 being able to get into some narrow short turn places. In the mountains around Tucson it's perfect.
Can't see putting a winch on it...
It won't be a "daily" driver, but I'll probably use it more than a new truck for local stuff.
You are correct about the mud. I have seen mud take many a truck. I avoid it at all cost. The clean up ain't worth it, not too mention it destroys trails.

So, no rear differential mods to the 90 truck then eh?

The other day I did a complete detail to the inside of it. It's actually in great shape. I would love to ditch the bench seat and put in buckets...I'll do some searches for this, if you have any links throw them my way.
Today I passed emissions for the 21st time in a row. Gotta love the Toyota.


I've only considered an SUV style vehicle briefly. A truck with a camper top shell is much more practical for me.

When I do the Pre-Runner test I'm actually going to take a 4x4 with TRD OR. See if I can get it stuck in 2 WD, activate the eLocker and if I can't get out then use the 4x4.

Great input and opinions, I appreciate you taking the time writing out your thoughts and ideas.

 

Are you having a bunch of problems now where you are getting stuck?
If yes, get tires.
Still gettings stuck?
Get the locker

tires are something you are always going to need.
A $1000+ locker is going to be upsetting if you find it wasn't necessary.

Oh man I know chazjb did that to his '97 and he found a direct bolt-on replacement. I can't remember the donor vehicle, and I'm not sure if it would still work for you, but I'd try to talk with him. He fell off the forums in May, but maybe a PM will reach him?

Hehe, you don't understand. Your test is impossible to do. The activation process is like this:

I'm driving along
flip knob to 4HI, keep driving, 4HI kicks in
decide I want to go to 4LO. I come to a full stop, put it in neutral, turn knob to 4LO (If you are manual, you have to depress clutch fully), wait for it to engage
begin driving again
decide i want the locker on. decrease speed to 5MPH or less, press RR LOCKER button, wait for locker to engage, start driving again.

I have absolutely no option to use the locker in anything but 4x4 with low range gears.