Recovery Formula...

[MonkeyProof]

so what happened to all the other stuff that i had posted in this topic? was tooo much?, too involved? it certainly was not "off topic" as it all was all on topic with winching operations and recovery.

[gjbonner]

Are some posts you made missing?

Edit: i must've missed it...

[MonkeyProof]

Originally Posted by gjbonner

Are some posts you made missing?

Edit: i must've missed it...

several..to include a link or two to another tacoma related forum lol..

[gjbonner]

Hmmmm youd think if they were to take it off theyd let you know why?????? anyone out there got any answers?

[Kilted Chiken]

Originally Posted by MonkeyProof

so what happened to all the other stuff that i had posted in this topic? was tooo much?, too involved? it certainly was not "off topic" as it all was all on topic with winching operations and recovery.

Was the info posted in this thread?

Originally Posted by MonkeyProof

several..to include a link or two to another tacoma related forum lol..

Feel free to repost them here and I'll look at them. Shouldn't be a problem. I did see a few posts in this thread from you about a twisted drive shaft at the Gate Keeper.

Originally Posted by gjbonner

Hmmmm youd think if they were to take it off theyd let you know why?????? anyone out there got any answers?

No answers yet but looking into it.

[drew02a]

Originally Posted by gjbonner

Grade Resistance is created when a vehicle is disabled on a slope. The cause of the resistance is the vehicles weight as it is affected by gravity. This makes the resistance equal to the vehicles weight. I will be using 5500lbs as the example vehicle weight. I believe this is approximately what the double cabs weigh. Correct me if I’m wrong please. So if needing to be recovered on a slope my resistance will be 5500lbs.

Only if the slope is 90* would the "Grade Resistance" be the full weight of the vehicle.

[off-roading-fan]

oh damn that sucks

Originally Posted by MonkeyProof

a snatch block is essential to have for recovery other then using it to reduce load pull..can allow to use a winch and odd angles to conduct a recovery...

here's my buddy Tim who attemted the "Gate Keeper" at Calico...twisted his rear driveshaft and debeaded 2 tires all withing 2 minutes...if we didn't have that snatch block, recovery would've been next to impossible..

[gjbonner]

Updated the Pics in the original post hope you guys like em

[Bill Burke]

Good stuff "monkeyproof" well thought out. It sounds like some military experience in that diatribe. Couple things: Mire Factor also takes into account the soil conditions - wet, dry, adhesion factors (how thick/thin/wet/dry) compacted clay vs. wet gravel etc. You did lay it out there well. Just need to add in a few more "factors" to complete the equation.

Some winch companies rate their winch at stall point others rate at clean line pull. All winches are rated from the bare drum adding the first layer. You are correct about subsequent layers diminishing the rated pull. Usually the power zone of most winches is the first and second layer. You are also correct in labeling the layers - first is drum side, and fourth/fifth is exterior exposed. Remind your readers that they need to rig the fall with the amount of rope that will get the initial load at the bare drum to start. (we are speaking about Recreational winching and light industrial winching here) In Heavy winching and military winching the equipment may be much higher WLL and Proof Load Tested.

Pulley Blocks DO NOT double the winch capacity - they REDUCE the work effort for said winch.

You are correct in stating that ROLLING resistance is the most common instance for recreational winching except for up-righting vehicles and a Mire Factor above 1.0.

Good job.

see you around, if I do I owe you a pair of Superwinch gloves!!!

Bill Burke

[gjbonner]

Pulley Blocks DO NOT double the winch capacity - they REDUCE the work effort for said winch.

when you add a Pulley yes it does double the winch capacity (in a way) i feel i should explain this in another way...

I you have a 10000 lb load to recover and you hook up a pulley you reduce that load by half so i guess it can be misleading by saying that but it is true. This is in many manuals and the military has been using it for a long long time.

if you have a winch that can pull 10000 lbs and you use a pulley, that same winch can now pull a 20000 lb load but it will only be working as if it was pulling 10000 lbs.
The winch doesnt magically gain more power! I hope this is understood by the readers. i just took it for granted that it is understood that the work effort was reduced.

If you add a pulley your winch can pull twice as much even though as far as the winch is concerned it only feels like it is pulling 10000 lbs even though the load is weighing in at 20000. I dont think that the average joe is really concerned with the specifics of these things but you are right...

The winch doesnt magically double its power, the load is reduced allowing the winch to pull twice the amount it originally could have. it has always been referred to as doubling the power of the "pulling unit" though so that is how i purveyed it. Rememeber a "pulling unit" could have been a mule or horse back in the day but the use of pulleys allowed them to pull twice the load they normally could have. (more depending on the amount of pulleys).

A winch will never pull harder than the max load it was rated at. it is impossible. but you can make a really large load SEEM like less to the winch through the use of pulleys

I have to say thanks to Mr. Burke for point that out though because there was probably plenty of people out there thinking they had a winch that was pulling at a rate of 20000lbs, however we know that would be quite a lot of amp draw to get that power and have the winch actually pulling with that much force

This brings me to another topic that we were talking about in the winch questions thread. I may just add this along with an explanation of the doubling or tripling of winch power as a note at the bottom of the post.

You can double the power of the winch or "reduce the work effort" (depending on how you want to look at it) to help out on the power draw. If your winch can handle the load with a one point rigging but it is no trouble to add a block then why not? You will be making the winch pull with less effort and in doing so your winch will require less amp draw which will in turn be easier on your battery life should you not have a very effective power source setup. jsut another tip to throw out there.

Thanks again Bill

[gjbonner]

The original Post has been edited in the section that talks about mire and at the end I added some more stuff that should be very useful to some.