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Best gen for 'moderate' build up?

View Poll Results: Best Generation for moderate buildups
1st gen Double Cab 38 33.04%
2nd gen Double Cab 51 44.35%
Have you seen the size of my NUTS?!?! I trail in my CAMRY, man 26 22.61%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-05-2009, 01:09 PM   #1
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Best gen for 'moderate' build up?

hey everybody and welcome to the thread. Drinks & snacks after the show

I know there's debate about it, I know everyone has their opinions, and I want to hear them, but more than that, I want to hear the justifications for said opinions on the matter:

If you were going to do a 'moderate' build up on a DC Tacoma for expedition/off-roading, but it was still going to be driven around town as well, sort of an all-purpose vehicle, what generation would you go with?

I recently picked up a 2009 Tacoma because we needed a larger truck that could possibly do some towing here & there. I got the bug and decided that I'd like to turn it into an off-road rig for us as well. It's the OR model so it's well-equipped to start with. However, now that I'm more aware of what I'm wanting to do, I find my head turning around here & there looking at STOCK 1st gens, 2001-2004 or so, double-cabs. Why stock? Well it seems that they have better native ground clearance? I'm not sure, I haven't stopped to ask anyone whether they have a leveling kit or whatnot, but it seems like the 1st gens have 1" or so better clearance at the framerails & crossmember, and almost 2" better under the nose than I do, and I have already put 32" tires on mine! That means they're almost 2-3" lifted over me stock? I'd have to pay for a 3" lift on the 2009, just get get where the 1st gens are on 31" tires?

Which got me thinking: it's almost time to retire our other vehicle. Perhaps instead of building up the 2009 OR, I'd be better served to pick up a 2001-2003 DC OR, and start there? Get an ARB push-button locker for the front diff, 3-4" quality lift, 33" tires… and probably end up with the same or similar obstacle clearance as a 6" lifted 2009, plus a shorter, more trail-friendly wheelbase (and tighter turn radius; man I miss my old 4runner).

What are the pros/cons of doing this? Would I be better off building up the 2009 like I was going to? Are there other factors at play that I'm not picking up on? Or would the 1st gen really end up being better for the task with similar investments?

What I envision is a GOOD amount of ground clearance, some good bumpers/guards, basket for the top for storage (3 dogs in the bed w/shell), winch eventually, etc. I find right now my major limiting factor on the 2nd gen, even with 32" tires, is lack of adequate ground clearance. most of my investment into it seems geared around getting around this shortcoming. And if the 1st gens are already better equipped in this regard, then hell…

What do you guys think?

I'm limiting it to the later 1st gens or the currently-owned 2nd gen, as we're two people strong + 3 dogs, so I need the DC option.
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Old 12-05-2009, 01:25 PM   #2
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You kinda hinted at what I would do.

Keep your 09. Buy an '85 (would be my first choice, could go pre85) for a dedicated rig, either a runner or pickup. You're in CA so either one shouldnt be too hard to find for cheap.

I know my answer didnt satisfy your question, but after wheeling my 03, which is my DD, i'd rather have something that I don't need to drive everyday to wheel in just in case something goes wrong.
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Old 12-05-2009, 01:31 PM   #3
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Gotta be post-'99 though; I need the Doublecab. That's the sacrifice. It's the family explorer vehicle, that's the niche it's filling. need the space inside & out!
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Old 12-05-2009, 01:37 PM   #4
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I have done some poking around online as well before posting here, too. Try as I might, I only found one source with any concrete measurements for the 1st gens ground clearance that wasn't just to the pumpkin. 18" to the frame. STOCK. if that's true, that's 2" better than I currently stand, with 1"-larger tires than stock. Crazy if that's true. It's like getting a 1st gen is an AUTOMATIC 4" lift kit for the 2nd gens
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:05 PM   #5
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http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehic...oma/index.html
need I say anymore?
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:12 PM   #6
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I figured that would show up eventually. But what if they had a 2009 available now? That's the question. I have one. Since I have it, is it better? I've no problem getting the "other" vehicle to actually be my main rig, and demoting the 2009 to the "other" if need be. It's all about what's best.
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Old 12-06-2009, 04:07 AM   #7
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Family expo rig? 09 dbl cab with LT.


Hardcore trail rig? 04- sas'd
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Old 12-06-2009, 05:20 AM   #8
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Do you have car payments on the 2009?

If yes.... then I'd definately find yourself a 1st gen and have it paid off completely. I've always had this oppinion, not exactly sure why...but perhaps resale value comes to mind. The bigger & more extreme you build a vehicle, the less it'll be worth if you try to resell it compared to a stock or mildly used/built vehicle.

The less money you put into it now (buying used), the more money you can put into it (to build), the easier it is to swallow if things break and/or if you use it hard.

Now that I'm thinking....are you financially able to keep the 2009 and go out and buy a pre-tacoma (90-94) truck and have it as a spare vehicle? That's probably your best bet....save you more money... no frame rust issues like the 1st gens have...etc.
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Old 12-06-2009, 07:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSeven View Post
Family expo rig? 09 dbl cab with LT.


Hardcore trail rig? 04- sas'd
The LT's a bit too much $$$ for a bit too few inches the right direction and too many the wrong direction. the 05+ models already have a 4" wider track, the LT extends this an additional 4"… A weak link becomes weaker. If I keep the '0 it'll probably get a Fabtech 6".

… which is what got me thinking. I mean, that much $$$, and my lowest point (besides rear axle) is still less than 16" off the ground (subframe connectors). I can get more than that with a 3-4" lift on a 1st gen, from ground to crossmember, no?
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Old 12-06-2009, 08:12 AM   #10
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your logic is flawed. Straight up.

You said expedition right? ok, expedition track is not as important. The Lt will perform great for long expanses of rough terrain.

IF you want a hardcore offroad/trail rig, sas an 04 -

you said family and expo, that doesnt have anything to do with narrow tight offcamber trails.



Quote:
Originally Posted by randombob View Post
The LT's a bit too much $$$ for a bit too few inches the right direction and too many the wrong direction. the 05+ models already have a 4" wider track, the LT extends this an additional 4"… A weak link becomes weaker. If I keep the '0 it'll probably get a Fabtech 6".

… which is what got me thinking. I mean, that much $$$, and my lowest point (besides rear axle) is still less than 16" off the ground (subframe connectors). I can get more than that with a 3-4" lift on a 1st gen, from ground to crossmember, no?
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Old 12-06-2009, 08:13 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janster View Post
Do you have car payments on the 2009?

If yes.... then I'd definately find yourself a 1st gen and have it paid off completely. I've always had this oppinion, not exactly sure why...but perhaps resale value comes to mind. The bigger & more extreme you build a vehicle, the less it'll be worth if you try to resell it compared to a stock or mildly used/built vehicle.
Doesn't bother me. Either way, the one that gets built-up will be a keeper, barring any catastrophes. I know a lot of people worry about denting their baby; it's a truck, I bought it to use it regardless. Cosmetics be damned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janster View Post
The less money you put into it now (buying used), the more money you can put into it (to build), the easier it is to swallow if things break and/or if you use it hard.
Yeah there IS that. But like I said, if I to do that to it, it's a keeper . That's why I'm here in this thread; get the best base to build from, make sure I don't do exactly what you described

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janster View Post
Now that I'm thinking....are you financially able to keep the 2009 and go out and buy a pre-tacoma (90-94) truck and have it as a spare vehicle? That's probably your best bet....save you more money... no frame rust issues like the 1st gens have...etc.
I know everyone loves SA toyos, but they're unrealistic for me. It's the family expedition vehicle. I NEED the DC, I need the bed, I need need need. That's why I limited the choices between a late DC 1st gen and the DC 2nd gen I have. It's gotta be between those two. I'm trying to figure out, just between those two, which is the better base to start building a moderate expedition rig, and why.
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Old 12-06-2009, 08:28 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSeven View Post
your logic is flawed. Straight up.

You said expedition right? ok, expedition track is not as important. The Lt will perform great for long expanses of rough terrain.

IF you want a hardcore offroad/trail rig, sas an 04 -

you said family and expo, that doesnt have anything to do with narrow tight offcamber trails.
Well I don't think of the logic as being flawed. Expedition vehicles are go-anywhere rigs to take the whole lot. The more ground clearance the better, within reason. LT gives less than other options, and the track IS important; the wider the track, the more you have to be concerned with lines & obstacle height and potential poke through along the undercarriage.

I think LT I think dune hopping. Lots of soft recoil, you're not concerned with with sharp, intruding obstacles, you're jumping & landing on 'relatively soft' and relatively flat sand dunes. Not that it's not a benefit in other off-road situations, having the extra travel, but I think clearance is more important the slower you're going and the more 'technical' or varied the terrains you'll encounter.

We'll be going slow . It's a little bit of everything up here, mostly forests & mountains though.
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Old 12-06-2009, 09:46 AM   #13
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i dont know, id get an 80 and build that for expo, 'they' say its the best expo rig ever to come to america. That being said, ill take space and comfort for cross terrain excursions...

well most would.. id rather have a beef cake solid axle rig that wont let me down.

if i had kids i wouldnt want to pack them in a pre 05 taco with a fabtech lift

Quote:
Originally Posted by randombob View Post
Well I don't think of the logic as being flawed. Expedition vehicles are go-anywhere rigs to take the whole lot. The more ground clearance the better, within reason. LT gives less than other options, and the track IS important; the wider the track, the more you have to be concerned with lines & obstacle height and potential poke through along the undercarriage.

I think LT I think dune hopping. Lots of soft recoil, you're not concerned with with sharp, intruding obstacles, you're jumping & landing on 'relatively soft' and relatively flat sand dunes. Not that it's not a benefit in other off-road situations, having the extra travel, but I think clearance is more important the slower you're going and the more 'technical' or varied the terrains you'll encounter.

We'll be going slow . It's a little bit of everything up here, mostly forests & mountains though.
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Old 12-06-2009, 10:00 AM   #14
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I voted for the third choice, but would like to specify that I in fact trail in my corolla, and not my camry.
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Old 12-06-2009, 10:00 AM   #15
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Old 12-06-2009, 10:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSeven View Post
i dont know, id get an 80 and build that for expo, 'they' say its the best expo rig ever to come to america. That being said, ill take space and comfort for cross terrain excursions...

well most would.. id rather have a beef cake solid axle rig that wont let me down.

if i had kids i wouldnt want to pack them in a pre 05 taco with a fabtech lift


Yeah I need the space, hence the lock-down on choices to 1st gen DC or 2nd gen DC. My thinking is, if I DO go 1st gen, I'll not need the Fabtech 6", probably just a 3-4" coilover lift. That OUGHT TO — if my math's right — get me the same-or-better ground clearance as my 2009 w/ the 6" lift…


Oh, and my kids are stuffed in the bed; 3 90lb labs & a 40lb Terrier mutt:

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Old 12-06-2009, 10:03 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sachou View Post
I voted for the third choice, but would like to specify that I in fact trail in my corolla, and not my camry.
I was gonna put Corolla but I'm lazy and couldn't remember how to spell it correctly I thought it was "Carolla" but that didn't look right, so Camry it was
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Old 12-06-2009, 10:07 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randombob View Post


Yeah I need the space, hence the lock-down on choices to 1st gen DC or 2nd gen DC. My thinking is, if I DO go 1st gen, I'll not need the Fabtech 6", probably just a 3-4" coilover lift. That OUGHT TO — if my math's right — get me the same-or-better ground clearance as my 2009 w/ the 6" lift…

I dont see how that makes sence, A 1st gen and a 2ed gen with coilovers have the same amount of ground clearance, Youll have less with a DB lift.
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Old 12-06-2009, 10:20 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver07taco View Post
I dont see how that makes sence, A 1st gen and a 2ed gen with coilovers have the same amount of ground clearance, Youll have less with a DB lift.

The red 1sr gen on coilovers, Mine in the center coilovers and blue 1st gen on OME's
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Old 12-06-2009, 11:15 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randombob View Post
Doesn't bother me. Either way, the one that gets built-up will be a keeper, barring any catastrophes. I know a lot of people worry about denting their baby; it's a truck, I bought it to use it regardless. Cosmetics be damned.

Yeah there IS that. But like I said, if I to do that to it, it's a keeper . That's why I'm here in this thread; get the best base to build from, make sure I don't do exactly what you described

I know everyone loves SA toyos, but they're unrealistic for me. It's the family expedition vehicle. I NEED the DC, I need the bed, I need need need. That's why I limited the choices between a late DC 1st gen and the DC 2nd gen I have. It's gotta be between those two. I'm trying to figure out, just between those two, which is the better base to start building a moderate expedition rig, and why.
Offroading is harsh on vehicles. I'm not talking about cosmetic stuff. Things wear out and wear down a lot faster. You'll have more maintenance and possibly more repairs & breakdowns.

After a few years of the truck being a daily driver & offroad rig -you'll soon sense that things aren't running as smoothly as they did previously and you'll start looking for a designated daily driver again just to get you to work on Monday. Believe me....I've been there and done that.
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